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#133384 - 08/10/09 11:49 PM Re: OT:Conformity is now the new dissent - Community Organizer wants to organize us all. [Re: Nick Batzdorf]
Knife Offline
Veteran Member
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Registered: 07/22/02
Posts: 1501
Loc: New York
Well, I could launch into an entire rebuttal of Nick's post up there but, in the interests of not having Nick retract his commendation, Nick?

I'm honestly asking you to provide real, factual support for several of the things you have offered up here as if they are just "so," like some type of undeniable fact.

I'm not "harassing" you or whatever. I'm asking you to go beyond simply asserting things like "lobbying is a Reagan-era Republican phenomenon" "medical insurance should not be for profit" and the like.

I'm asking you to support those statements with actual evidence and facts (before I simply respond to each of them, only to have you then say I'm "just picking through your words and arguing silly semantics.")
_________________________
Obama sucked. I wish I were up there instead of Obama.
~ Nick Batzdorf

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#133385 - 08/11/09 02:30 AM Re: OT:Conformity is now the new dissent - Community Organizer wants to organize us all. [Re: Knife]
zrocks Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 848
Loc: Minneapolis
 Originally Posted By: Knife

1: Impose term limits on all politicians, to ensure that we don't get career politicians. Maybe 6 or 8 years or so. Enough time to learn the job but not enough time to become beholden to it.

2: True campaign finance reform:

a) Limits (that are actually adhered to) on all campaign donations - private and corporate. No PACS, spousal co-donors and other loopholes. You can only raise "$X" from "Y # of people" - and that's it.

b) Completely equal - and 100% free - air time to all candidates. No ability to buy more ads or editorial time beyond what the FCC - which is supposed to control the "public airwaves" and not allow them to be sold to the highest bidder - grants to ALL legitimate candidates.

3: Generally less centralized government.

a) Allow the individual States to govern themselves without completely B.S. central control over things like Federal highway and school funding, inter-State commerce, etc.

b) More public influence and involvement in more local, day-to-day politics.

c) (Possibly) breaking up the United States into smaller units. Our current system was put in place when the country was a mere fraction of the size it is now. The United States is a huge nation now, with extremely disparate segments. Wildy varying geographic, cultural, economic, meterological, etc., etc., segments all supposed to get along and engage in mutual government. It's almost (?) impossible to make this many different people with such different experiences and lifestyles and beliefs agree on anything, much less something as fundamental as the direction of the Country.

Those are some ideas ( that will NEVER come to fruition, BTW) but, I don't claim to know what the solution is.

Not by a long shot.


Knife,

You make some good points. However, as far as term limits go, that is controlled by the voters. A bad politician is bad no matter how many years he or she holds office. Intelligent voters are the best controllers of term limits.

How about limiting the length of campaigning to 2 months before an election. Certainly any candidate can make his or her point in 60 days.

If there are "debates", allow all candidates to participate.

Obviously change the tax system to a consumption tax rather than one which taxes production and more importantly, do not allow the government to operate outside of its available money.

I would suggest time limits on legislation (20 years comes to mind). If a law or program is good, let the next generation vote to continue it, if it is bad, let them modify it or let it die.

There are legitimate functions of government and the US government has gone way beyond their real function. While some may consider it progress, it is really at the cost of precious freedom.
_________________________
zrocks for urinal.
Obviously I'm stupid.
And you're a quimbus.

~ Nick Batzdorf

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#133388 - 08/11/09 10:42 AM Re: OT:Conformity is now the new dissent - Community Organizer wants to organize us all. [Re: zrocks]
Kecinzer Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 3464
Loc: MA, USA
 Originally Posted By: zrocks
as far as term limits go, that is controlled by the voters. A bad politician is bad no matter how many years he or she holds office. Intelligent voters are the best controllers of term limits.


Zrocs, the problem is that after many years in the public eye, name recognition gets in the way of a thoughtful and objective voting process. And after some time it becomes an institution... e.g., Kennedy, Byrd, Thurmond... An 8-year term should be it.
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See?

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#133389 - 08/11/09 11:21 AM Re: OT:Conformity is now the new dissent - Community Organizer wants to organize us all. [Re: Kecinzer]
zrocks Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 848
Loc: Minneapolis
 Originally Posted By: Kecinzer

Zrocs, the problem is that after many years in the public eye, name recognition gets in the way of a thoughtful and objective voting process. And after some time it becomes an institution... e.g., Kennedy, Byrd, Thurmond... An 8-year term should be it.


The problem then is with the voters. When the voting process becomes a contest of who will provide more government (less freedom) disguised as security, then the voters are to blame. If a politician is doing a great job (and there is at least one who does), why punish him with term limits.

If voters had the intelligence and guts to elect officials who would really follow Liberterian like philosophy, the other parties would quickly learn and follow.

Take a minute and read the Declaration of Independence. Interesting concepts in that document.
_________________________
zrocks for urinal.
Obviously I'm stupid.
And you're a quimbus.

~ Nick Batzdorf

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#133391 - 08/11/09 11:49 AM Re: OT:Conformity is now the new dissent - Community Organizer wants to organize us all. [Re: zrocks]
Nick Batzdorf Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 04/15/99
Posts: 12161
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
No time to write much, Knife, but medical insurance not being for profit...well, depending on what reports you read (the reference I have is two Harvard medical economists) we waste about $350 billion a year - about 2% of GDP - that we wouldn't spend if we had universal health insurance. Insurance company risk evaluation is a huge waste and a drain on the system.

It's not that I have anything against anyone making a profit, it's that it serves no public good in this case. Not everything should be for profit.

And I'm not saying lobbying is a Reagan-era phenomenon, I'm saying that his policies of cutting taxes at the top margin led to the rise of the CEO class that hires the ruling lobbyists we have now. It's not that he intended that, but it was a consequence. Read James K. Galbraith's "Predator State" if you want to know where I learned about this; it's an eye-opening book. Believe me, I'm not pulling it out of my ass.


Term limits: to me that's not the issue. What we really need is campaign finance reform, in fact we need to put severe limits on the amount of money that can be spent on a campaign. The need for campaign money to get re-elected is an incredible corrupting influence. I say no political advertising on public airwaves should be allowed.

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#133392 - 08/11/09 09:19 PM Re: OT:Conformity is now the new dissent - Community Organizer wants to organize us all. [Re: Nick Batzdorf]
zrocks Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 848
Loc: Minneapolis
 Originally Posted By: Nick Batzdorf
Term limits: to me that's not the issue. What we really need is campaign finance reform, in fact we need to put severe limits on the amount of money that can be spent on a campaign. The need for campaign money to get re-elected is an incredible corrupting influence. I say no political advertising on public airwaves should be allowed.


Actually, this is a great idea. How about each candidate has equal time on PBS stations. No commercial or cable station allowed to carry any political advertising (even from PACs). Combine this with a 2 month campaign limit and true reform is at hand.
_________________________
zrocks for urinal.
Obviously I'm stupid.
And you're a quimbus.

~ Nick Batzdorf

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#133393 - 08/11/09 10:03 PM Re: OT:Conformity is now the new dissent - Community Organizer wants to organize us all. [Re: zrocks]
Doggn' Mike H Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 72
 Originally Posted By: zrocks
How about each candidate has equal time on PBS stations. No commercial or cable station allowed to carry any political advertising (even from PACs). Combine this with a 2 month campaign limit and true reform is at hand.


holy sh*t i agree!

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#133394 - 08/12/09 01:14 AM Re: OT:Conformity is now the new dissent - Community Organizer wants to organize us all. [Re: Doggn' Mike H]
jeremy hesford Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 6219
Loc: odenton md.
Hummmm Drummmm Soooo Whhattt..??

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#133395 - 08/12/09 01:27 AM Re: OT:Conformity is now the new dissent - Community Organizer wants to organize us all. [Re: Kecinzer]
JohnH Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/14/99
Posts: 551
Loc: west coast
I think we are being manipulated in to these huge divisions.

There are folks on the left and right who make big bucks by selling us their self righteous anger.
In fact their very survival depends upon sharply dividing us.
We buy in to their rage and take it on. (whether or not it has any basis in truth or logic)
Such a waste of energy.

The truth is, we are all in the same boat. (and we're more alike than they want us to believe)
Particularly musicians and audio pros.
I don't know about you, but I'm a self employed musician/audio guy.
I buy my own health insurance and it is going up steeply every year.
It is chewing up more and more of my income.
I don't know the solution, but I think some remedy is necessary.

I want to be sure my family is protected in the event of major illness.
I'm getting pushed to the limits.

Do most of you have great coverage at a reasonable price?
Am I missing something here?

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#133396 - 08/12/09 07:03 AM Re: OT:Conformity is now the new dissent - Community Organizer wants to organize us all. [Re: JohnH]
TheHopiWay Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1403
Loc: Washington State
 Originally Posted By: JohnH

Do most of you have great coverage at a reasonable price?
Am I missing something here?



Not that I'm aware of.
My insurance went up 25% this year. My wife and I had to change to a pretty weak plan just so we could afford the payments.
Now we have no Rx coverage, our deductible is up to 2500 each, we're only allowed 4 office visits annually (though we usually only need 1) and we're still paying about one DA7 a month (700 bucks).


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