TDIF Hassles: DA7 <-> Motu 2408 (PCI 324) <-> Cubase

Hey People,

So, I finally got all the pieces I thought were necessary for getting my new DA7 talking to my Mac, but I think I'm having a problem with TDIF/Word Clock issues. When I record tracks they sound fine if I mix them ITB and send them out via S/PDIF back to the DA7, but if I route the individual tracks back to the DA7 via TDIF they sound all fizzy. I thought maybe I was overloading something, but they almost sound more fizzy the quieter I record the tracks. If the tracks are totally silent, there's no fizzy distortion, but if there's just some quiet thumping on the drums or whatever it's all snap/crackle/pop.

Like I said, I've verified that the tracks are recording clean and solid via TDIF, but playback via TDIF is sucking.

I've got 2 TDIF cables going from slot 1 and 2 of the DA7 to the first two banks on the Motu. I've got S/PDIF going in and out of the motu and in/out of 2TrkA on the DA7. I've got a 75Ohm, BNC cable going out of the DA7 to the Word In on the Motu. I've got the Motu set to take Word Clock In from the DA7.

Could it be these home made TDIF ribbon cables I'm rockin'? http://tascamforums.com/index.php?showtopic=5562 They said that if you keep them short they work fine (they're saying 15 feet) I shortened mine from 5 feet to 2 feet with no discernable difference in the fizziness. Also, if it were the cables wouldn't they be fizzy in both directions?

Any TDIF/Word Clock, DA7, Motu 2408 wisdom would be much appreciated at this point. I spent all day trying different combinations of cables, settings, etc., to no avail.

Thanks,

unfamiliar with "fizzy," but it sounds like you might have playback coming from spdif and tdif simultaneously. make sure you have the cue mix settings correct in the 2408 hardware setup - they can be a little tricky and are your first routing setup for your system thru the 2408. I use DP not Cubase, but there has to be a way to get to that routing setup via your sequencer.

There is a dip switch on the TDIF card that gets set one way for the older DA88-style TDIF connection, and the other way for the newer DA38/98 connection. If it's set wrong you're not getting word clock through the TDIF cable. It may be necessary even with the BNC clock.

Can you give a better description of "fizzy?" Is it distortion? Snap/pop?

Can you try a substitute TDIF cable, just to verify whether there's something wrong with your homemade ones?

How are you handling Wordclock?

The OP said WC is coming from DA7 to 2408 via BNC, though there may still be a need for the TDIF card switch to be set properly.

BTW, I think the switch must be in the DA38 mode.

Man, I pulled that TDIF card out and looked at the Dip switches, they were both off, which I think is DA88 mode. Everything I found only said that was the correct mode for what I was doing. Or at least that's how I interpreted it. I'll try flipping that little switch.

From the DA7 manual:

"When using the TASCAM DA88 setup, the TDIF card has a pair of dip
switches physically mounted on it. From the factory both switches are set to
Off. This setting permits operation between the DA7and the DA88. If you
use either a DA38 or DA98, switch 1 must be set to On for proper operation.
Switch 2 has no specific function and should not be changed from its Off
status. Changing it could create communication protocol problems and
conflicts, and should be avoided. "

So you should set switch #1 ON, because the 2408 almost certainly uses the newer TDIF-1 standard.

Naturally, if things get worse, just flip it back and I was wrong...

I read that paragraph about 5 times. I read it to mean that the DA88 was probably the more popular standard, hence the default.

Thanks for bothering to look that up, type it up and parse it for me. Seriously.

ck

Flipping the switch didn't do anything discernible.

have you tried the cue mix setup for the 2408?

is the word clock out /thru switch on the back of the DA7 flipped to out?

Cue Mix doesn't work with the PCI 324 card and OSX. I've tried a zillion things in "PCI Audio Setup" though.

Word clock switch on DA7 is set to out. When I flip it the other way there's no sound at all.

I've also tried clocking the DA7 from the 2408. No dice.

Isn't everything supposed to be able to clock off the TDIF signal itself? When I disconnect the word clock entirely, I can clock the 2408 over the s/pdif connection from the DA7. When I try to clock either device from the other one just over TDIF the "Tascam" light flashes on the 2408.

I read somewhere that the TDIF clock is 90 degrees out of phase with the s/pdif or BNC clocks. My current theory is that I can't really clock TDIF on my shakey cables and that you have to clock TDIF on the TDIF cable and not using "Word Clock" or S/PDIF.

I really think my DIY TDIF cables are crap. I've ordered some 3 foot Hosa's from Sweetwater and I think I'm going to stop experimenting [driving myself crazy] until those get here.

Sounds like a good plan. Try new cables.

New TDIF cables didn't solve the problem.
I tried rebooting into OS9 and recording and I didn't have the same issue.

Here's a sample of the shmutz: http://snarlnet.com/shmutz.wav

Any idea where that comes from? One other weird thing, when I play back via tdif, some of the channels show up on several inputs of the DA7. I'll have it routed to TDIF A5 and it'll come up on A3 and A5. I'm pretty sure whatever's causing that is also causing the shmutz. Crosstalk of some sort?

Shouldn't be crosstalk. Check the INPUT MTX screen, in DIO I think. Verify that all the slot inputs are going where they should. I think there's a reset button there too.

As for the OS change, are you sure you've got the latest versions of the drivers?

Yeah, I finally got ahold of MOTU tech support and he walked me through updating the MOTU driver over the phone. No change. He told me it was probably Cubase's fault (of course) so I'm trying to find a DAW that has a free trial that will run on a G4 OSX 10.3.9. Everything seems to require 10.4 (Ardour, Reaper).

Any suggestions?

It's tough trying to use 10.3.9. You're talking about an OS version that was first released in fall of 2003. Even 10.4 Tiger is four years old.