Hey Guys,

I'm back from 3 round the clock weeks of doing several national commercials. There's plenty of stories to tell, but that's for another time.

What I want to share with you is my recent experience tracking in a "Big Time, Grammy Winning Facility".

As a rule, I try very hard not to waste my client's money. But sometimes they force you to. A small business doing a jingle would look to have you do as much as possible for as little as possible. But when you work with the "Majors", appearances HAVE to be kept.

So I did the Pre-Production at my shop, tracked a midi/live hybrid for the demo, and booked a Major League room to track the song for real why my client "eats fruit into his cell phone".

My goal was to capture the data into my PC/Nuendo System and have the session backed up on DA-88s. I was tracking on an SSL4000G into 24 tracks of DA-88. But those 24 tracks were only supposed to be back up.

When I arrived, I was told that the facility had no way to get the data into my PC. They didn't have any elco cables! The only way they could've done it was to run the data through ADATs into my PC. But someone else had booked the ADATs for another session. I ended up calling a local music store and renting a MOTU 2408 to do transfers ( what's wrong with this picture?). I DIDN'T WANT TO DO TRANSFERS. BUT IF I HAD TO DO TRANSFERS, I WOULD HAVE PREFERRED TO SEND THE DATA FROM NUENDO TO THE DA-88S, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

Now that I was "locked" into a 24 track ONLY session, I had to deal with issues like track budgeting and destructive edits. The engineer blew a couple of good takes with manual punch-ins instead of letting the DA-88s do it automatically.

When it came time to do the transfers, I had rented enough gear
to do one pass of 24 tracks. But I was told that I'd have to do 3 passes of 8 because this multi-million dollar facility only had ONE D-SUB CABLE! Further more, the engineer went ahead and ran the transfers without synchronization! He wasn't familiar with Nuendo and assumed that because it wasn't Pro Tools, it din't have pro features like SMPTE or even word clock. When I informed him that I had both, he told me that we only had one pass left to do, so I might as well just let it go. Then I'd only have to drop and drag the 3 blocks of 8 into position. I was pissed but I didn't want to waste another dime in the facility. So I agreed, got my data, and got out of there.

The next day, I had to spend 2& 1/2 hours doing "corrective surgeory" on those tracks. I had to drag every single track into position!
I ended up adding another 21 tracks of data to finish my project. And, of course, my client thinks the wonderful sound was due to the "Big Time Room." But all the Big Time Sound came from my DA7, Nuendo Plug-ins, and a couple of pieces of Lexicon hardware! That and NASA like attention to detail on my part.

The thing that annoyed me the most was the facility's attitude toward Producers like me.They acted like if I'd been a "REAL" producer, I'd have booked Studio A instead of B, used the bigger console and Pro Tools, and spent 4 days with them to finish the project using all their "REAL" gear.

But my client was happy, these spots are going to air coast to coast, and I got PAID for my work! What the hell else is supposed to happen?

To be fair, the engineer wasn't rude or even deliberately sloppy ( though I was annoyed about those punch-ins). But it's clear his employers don't consider us "Little Guys" much of a concern. Otherwise, they'd have had the necessary equipment or access to it to accomodate my project. These places are like big analog dynasuars! They've got rooms and rooms of proprietary gear and an elitist attitude towards anything that isn't in that catagory.

I could've done a better, faster job tracking at any of my buddy's project rooms. They all had D-sub and elco cables. They all had MOTU 2408s. I could've monitored on Genelecs, Tannoys, KRKs, or Mackie 824s, used the same Neuman, AKG, and DPA mics for a third of the price! Most importantly, they'd have worked their asses off to do the best possible job they could to prove they deserve to be in the "Majors!" They just didn't have a lounge or lobby for "The Suits" to hang out in, Sigh. It's a shame.

But I assure you that I will be vigilantly trying to educate my clients to get past that crap and just let me handle the work WHERE I want to. When that day comes, These "Goliaths" had better have an attitude adjustment or suffer the same fate! Anybody else dealing with this crap, or was this just an isolated case?

I interned at a major facility for 3.5 months. What an eye opener that was. Some things I learned were that they have the same types of problems we do, or I do. The atmosphere there was like a Burger King at lunch hour. So much hype and little real "human" concern or communication.

Talk about elitist attitude, I can relate to that. For some god unknown reason, folks like that think they are so superior to us "common folk" and are so used to it, they take it for granted.

It sounds to me like the guy didn't care, and alot of them don't. He's getting his pay check no matter what happens.

The owner of the place I was at was such an incredable snob, it was laughable. He believes, lives his own hype.

I remember driving home from there one day and saying to myself, "THANK GOD FOR PROJECT STUDIOS!"

[This message has been edited by jeremy hesford (edited 08-24-2001).]

[This message has been edited by jeremy hesford (edited 08-24-2001).]

keyplayer,

Welcome to that crazy world, sheesh.

I have my stories, the big studio promisses the world but give us crap.

One time I did a session in the famous Little Mountain recording studio. I was told that I could link the two Studer 800's up, "it happens all the time". When we got there the session engineer said that the link had to be done in the two controll rooms they couldn't bring the other deck into our controll room, I said whatever. He said lets set up the gear till the head studio engineer got there, whatever. The engineer gets there and says you got all the equipment set up and it looks like you don't need me. I go, hold on were going to cut a safty while we do the master. the engineer says we can't do that.

On the front money to hold the studio I had put that we were to do the lock up, Little Mountain is in Canadia, I'm from the US, they wanted our money, I wanted the sound of the rooms.

To make this ramble a little shorter, the studio had never done that before but thought they could bully us into doing it with one machine, they couldn't, but I settled for them making a snake to do a safty 'copy'. When we were done tracking we went off the clock till the snake was done. the "copy" was done for free because it took so long to finish the snake.

The session sounded great. but we found later that the cool room sound the studio was famous for, the room mics were out of phaze to each other by 140 degrees.

Do we get what we pay for, sometimes!

H.

OK guys, let's go back about 20 years when the record industry was actually making money! In those days, and 'H' you would know, as visiting engineers we were treated as royalty!!

I NEVER had a problem working at Kendun, Westlake, I.A.M. or wherever that I wasn't respected and treated professionally. I'd have to say that 'current' facilities and management have a few more 'problems' with the independent engineer than was noticed in the late 70s/early 80s.

TREAT YOUR CLIENT LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED... does that still work?



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ERIC SEABERG • San Diego, CA
eseaberg@home.com

Eric,

Now you've got me smiling, while I'm fondly remembering a session at Kendun where what was supposed to be my second engineer didn't want me to touch the SSL, having said that, I do agree with you, we were thought of as additional income and most of the time a job offer during or after the session.

As a guitar player from Seattle LA always rolled out the red carpet, for producers/engineers Quency is about the only one back then that anyone would know. I could drop names and phone numbers with the best of them, but it was twards the end of the session that I would get "that sounds really neat, now I see why you did it that way". I learned old school, so not using EQ was odd to the 'modern' engineer then. Yea, if your making the payment on the studio that month you get perks, now days when the card is not enough to make the rent payments because everyone has a recording studio it changes the equation, it has to.

I'll bet you could go into any of the big rooms in LA today and your reputation would preceed you favorably and the red carpet would roll out.

Now days, everyone wants to be an engineer/producer, but they don't have clients.

H

So those of us without "Big Time Reps" be damned? That doesn't seem like good business sense to me! On a planet this fickled, you never know who the next "Big Thing" is going to be. It seems to me you'd want to hedge your bet by being kind and professional to EVERYONE!

I THOUGHT I was building a relationship with this studio. I had brought in other accounts before. I brought them my 1st national account when I backed my session up with my VS-1680. I told them then that I was building a Pre/Post Room and that, whenever possible, I'd be back to use their rooms and mics. I even consulted these guys when I was purchasing my Nuendo system because I wanted to make sure I could avoid interface problems! They said it sounded like a great DAW and that they didn't expect there would be any problems. So, from my perspective, they could see at least 2 things.
1) I was moving up in the business.
2) I kept my word and brought back larger projects.
Shouldn't that equal a really good potential for a long term client?

In the early 70s almost all of my jobs were in retail. I sold records, clothes, and musical instruments/gear. So I KNOW ABOUT DEVELOPING A GOOD CUSTOMER! I'd sell a guy with tons of dreams and little cash a keyboard and amp and slowly develop a relationship that would end with me selling this guy a Rick Wakeman/Keith Emerson sized rigg and back stage passes to some major rock concerts! Why? The guy remembered how I treated him when he was looking for a break!

So now I'm on the other side of that equasion. I expected to be treated the same way. I had originally intended to spend 3 days there. I WANTED to mix on the SSL. I was really psyched about putting Nuendo through it's paces in a "Totally Professional Environment." Instead, the totally professional environment turned out to be my project room.

With manufacturers actually building a new industry on being able to interface with so many formats (Some studios have dedicated rooms, like the Transfer Mat in N.Y., to do nothing but turn analog into digital, DA88 into ADAT, ADAT into Pro Tools, or Logic, or Paris, or........ you get the idea), how on earth can ANY selfrespecting COMMERCIAL FACILITY not have at least a rack of MOTU 2408s and the various cables required?!

The only possible excuse is that they don't respect those formats and the budget concious or budget restricted people who want/have to use them. They don's look at us as a viable market.

This room as lost me as a client now. They may not care, of course, since I'm such a little guy. But I won't recommend them to anyone either. That kind of thing WILL spread.

One day, my opinion will count! People are already starting to treat me differently because of these accounts (THAT'S really wierd!). When that day comes, how much you want to bet I'll get a call from their sales rep asking why I don't come around anymore?

Key, your right on that point, it was not good business to treat you that way. It should not matter who you are, it's the same money eather way. You should get the same treatment and service as anybody else.

I'm sure you had to pay top dollor for that service and you didn't get what you payed for. THAT IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL SERVICE FACILITY.

My first day interning I had to help another engineer do inventory. He had to ask the director a question so we went into his office. He was sitting at his desk fuming about the owner saying he was on the verge of quiting because of something the guy said or did. The book keeper could barely make pay roll, (who happened to be the owners daughter) because she spent to much money on gear. I was really supprised to find such conflict going on and on my first day there!

People had problems with each other and egos were at war.I was stunned. Such a beautiful place, such great equipment, but the people didn't get along.

I treat my clients with equal respect. Sure I like to work with professional, higher profile clients BUT I still give the struggeling band as much concern and respect.

You're right, Key... and that IS what I was saying. If you weren't treated that way, then you should call the studio manager and let them know. If they don't apologize and try to work something out for next time, then find another room to work in and make SURE they know that!!



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ERIC SEABERG • San Diego, CA
eseaberg@home.com

Jeremy,

Is the place you're referring to, out in the country part of B. county?

Email me at CreativeUnderground@hotmail.com if you don't want to say here.

Brian

Hello keyplayer and hello to all. Being new to your forum ( and a fine one at that ) may I respond to your post.
I feel for you and the experience you have had with the "Big Time, Grammy Winning Facility".
Not knowing your and the mentioned studios way of doing business, I feel I can only express myself as to what you have posted.
I do have questions. Are you doing all the work at your business; Producer, engineer, musician, programmer, office, etc. What was your communication with said studio prior to your booked session date. What was your lead time before your session date. Was the work that was done at your shop a studio to studio session transfer or did you cut all the tracks again from scratch or a combination of both.
Were the "3 around the clock weeks of doing several national commercials" all done at the "Big Time, Grammy Winning Facility".
I find your post and the experience you had, interesting and a common topic at all levels of the sound recording industry, an industry of constant change and often quite confused.
I understand this is a DA-7 forum pertaining to issues related to the use and operation of the DA-7 and a post of this nature could be out of sorts.
With the DA-7 being used in many professional environments (as it is a very professional mixer / interface ) an experience like yours shows your awareness and concern about DA-7 users working with the "Majors", and appearances do HAVE to be kept. There seems to be a fine line to be walked and the proof is in the pudding. Sincerely VU