Folks,

My current setup is an Akai DR16pro lightpiped to the DA7 and on to an Alesis MasterLink via AES dio. Here are some concerns/questions that I need advice on.

1) Tracks: 16 is simply not enough. Buying another DR16pro + the RE32 (think BRC here) + 3rd ADAT card for DA7 would set me back to the tune of $5000-$6000. Although I really dig the AKAI stuff, this seems like an AWFUL lot of money for what is still a basic MDM setup (i.e. without all the advantages of a real DAW).

Total tracks = 32 (24 digi IN to one DA7)

2) Session Portability: My tracking room is in reality too small (and in too close proximity to neighbors) to track acoustic drums properly and some potential clients want "live drums" (...I can offer them the AKAI MPC2000XL or Groove Control drums but a few won't go there). The ADAT is still in heavy circulation and these clients could bring me the basic drum/bass tracks on ADAT.
A new LX-20 + some synch device (like the MOTU DTP)would set me back $1500-$2000.

Total tracks = 24 (24 digi IN to one DA7)

3) The need for more available digital effects at mixdown. We will address this
below.

If closer inspection of these needs and comparing 1) & 2) seems confusing, consider that most of the clients could bring an actual ADAT machine - where I would (in case 1)) digitally transfer the drums/bass to one of the AKAI units. However, in some ways it would be "nice" to have my own ADAT (for possible "remote" recording work and as an "output device" for folks wanting to "export" work to other studios.

Also consider that much of my work includes "virtual" MIDI sound sources that come in at mix-down and don't need to "live" on MDM tracks.

Here are some possible solutions scenarios:

A) Do 1) above and regret spending that much money on what is fast becoming "old hat".

B) Do 2) and have fewer financial regrets (after all a MOTU digital timepiece is good for other things as well).

C) Do neither 1) or 2) and purchase some new DAW system. I mean $6000 should buy a pretty righteous Computer/DAW software set up, NO? This would also help with the digital effects dilemma through the use of plug-ins. Also consider that if I choose C, I can obtain some "session portabilty" by using the existing DR16pro as a "remote" recording device (to bring things back for digital transfer to the DAW).

My problem with this configuration is that it seems the DA7 now becomes mostly a hard control surface and it’s audio is basically bypassed by using the computer-based DAW, correct?

Also, do plug-ins really sound as good as high-end devices (think TC M3000, Finalizer 96K, etc)?

If I understand things correctly, due to latency, you must mix in the DAW using software-AUX’d plugins and output in stereo. Or can you (using, for example, a MOTU 2048) output 24 tracks digital (into the DA7) and mix in the DA7?

I realize this post is long and potentially confusing. Thanks in advance for advice, etc. on how you all pondered and solved some of these problems.

What am I not considering?


Brian



[This message has been edited by bbowman (edited 08-26-2001).]

How about getting an ADAT, if that's what you think most people would come in with, and add a Tascam MX-2424? This would give you 32 tracks where you could use the ADAT as a master that the 2424 would chase. If it were me, I'd bring the ADAT back into analog inputs 1-8 and the 2424 back into slots 1-3 (inputs 9-32).

The best part about the 2424 is it DOES have editing capabilities; you can record onto its drive either as WAV files for PC use or SDII for Mac use, allowing parts and/or even your final mix to remain 24-bit on two tracks and 'imported' into a 2-track DAW for editing and CD burning.

We've got 48-tracks of DA78s that we'll be losing soon and replace them all with (2) MX-2424s. As another option, you wanna buy some DA78s?



------------------
ERIC SEABERG • San Diego, CA
eseaberg@home.com

Eric,

Thanks for your reply. Honestly, IMHO, the TASCAM MX-2424 is "real close" to my (sans 8 tracks) Akai DR16pro. The DR also has great editing capabilities. If I were to unload the Akai in favor of the TASCAM, I'd loose big time in $$. Here is some more information to help understand my motivations. My studio, "Creative Underground" is a tax-exempt foundation dedicated to providing high-quality recoring for sacred music artists (i.e. Contemporary Christian, Black Gospel, Ethenic, Praise/Worship etc.). The majority of the live drum/bass tracking is done in my church's auditorium. The soundguy has an old 16-bit ADAT and this is what past projects (overdubbed and mixed in other studios) have had their basic band parts tracked on.

However, my current thinking is simply take the DR16pro along with appropriate cables and an Avalon U5 (to DI the Bass) to church to capture the drum/bass tracks (with a scratch lead vocal/guitar/piano).

Take the DR16 back to the studio and complete the project. The bit about the DAW in my original post is also rooted in the need for more available effects at mixdown
(i.e. through the virtual AUXs provided by the DAW). Of course, this could also be accomplished through the use of an AES/SPDIF on the third DA7 card slot.

... so much gear, so little time.

[This message has been edited by bbowman (edited 08-26-2001).]

[This message has been edited by bbowman (edited 08-26-2001).]

Just for informational purposes, you can score a 20 bit ADAT for around $400 - $600 on Digibid these days. The prices have fallen quite a bit since Alesis went into recievership. Even places like Mars Music and Guitar Center are selling "B" stock models for $699. So it's not too much of a bite out of your wallet. I have 2 LX20's and even though I barely use them , in favor of my DAW these days, I just can't deal with losing a grand to sell them. I suppose if Alesis ever releases the HD2424, I'll trade them and eat the loss....

Is the computer you're using to post your messages up to running a digital audio card? If so, locking that to your present rig would get you plenty of tracks without a very large investment.

envoid,

Thanks for the tip on ADAT falling prices. Actually what your are stating about the use of your DAW over the ADATs is EXACTLY why I'm favoring the DAW solution and keeping my DR16pro for "remote" recording. In reality the need to "import" is pretty much limited to the situation described above. So, I'm not really sure I even need the ADAT. Certainly, if it becomes an absolute necessity the prices can do nothing but continue to fall.

Nick,

The computer I'm posting on is in my software development lab (my employer owns it and I can't use it in the studio for a bunch of reasons) - but I have another in my studio. It is a dual processor WinTEL arrangement but the MB maxes out at 550Mhz. It's currently running Windows 98 (with a single 450Mhz processor because 98 does not support dual processors) in support of GigaStudio. I used to run NT4 on it for work with two 300Mhz's. I'm concerned that it is too limited to ever supported Giga, a DAW, and the multiple Plugins that I would need in place of outboard signal processors.

... I guess I'm really looking for an excuse to invest in a high end MAC-based DAW. Comments, advice, etc.?


Brian