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#40021 - 05/26/04 01:05 PM Re: Do I really need Pro Tools???
Justin Offline

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Registered: 04/15/99
Posts: 3276
Loc: Portland, OR
 Quote:
Originally posted by Michael M:
Justin, that could be said for any platform! Sit down and watch any working pro on DP, Logic, Nuendo, etc. - these are all pro systems with strengths and weaknesses just like pro tools. Is pro tools 75% better (faster, better sounding, more features, more stable) than any of these three daw's? Absolutely not! Is it even 25% better? Having direct experience with pt, logic and dp, the answer is no in my world.
Michael - I've played with all of these. In the context of "different strokes for different folks" I'd say you are correct - use the tool that works for you. In terms of what is a professional product - I disagree - Protools far exceeds these programs. One reason is the key to Protools -- the TDM hardware. Logic is the only program you mention that can use Digidesign hardware - but if you're going to buy the TDM hardware, you might as well use the Protools software like the rest of the industry. Who knows where Logic will go now that Apple has purchased it - maybe it will compete with Protools on a higher level but more likely it will be blended in with their consumer marketing. In sum,
I consider Logic, Cubase, Nuendo, Sonar and others to be very much pro-sumer products geared mostly at hobbiests - not that there is anything wrong with that. But if you want to truly use what the pros use - Protools is it.

Also, Windows Operating System (all flavors) is great for lots of things - audio is not one of them. I can list lots of reasons why but I'll give you one to chew on... viruses. Mac OS 9 has none. Mac OS X I think they just discovered one. Mac OS X has great potential for audio applications but much is still in transition. The first iterations of OS X really were poor. So far so good with Panther however.

Raj -

No offense but your pictures reflect a lot of clutter. They are also squeezed and distorted. I'm sure your intentions are good. But as we've discussed before - you're missing a whole world of great recording capability using Protools 002 - you've got enough Mics and Pres - bite the bullet and grab a G5 with Protools HD Accel 2. You'll be in heaven, I guarantee it.
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#40022 - 05/26/04 03:49 PM Re: Do I really need Pro Tools???
Michael M Offline
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Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 1693
Loc: Santa Barbara,CA
Justin, respectfully, LOTS of pros use DP and Logic and we're not just "playing with it". Saying that top film and commercial composers are using hobbyist level software is pretty silly.
Yes, it is a matter of choice/taste/style, what kind of work you do, and an economic question.

If you really must have that logo somewhere, (where IS that Izod shirt you used to have?!) Raj is proof the cheaper versions (which are FAR inferior to a Logic or DP system) will suffice. I use the free version occasionally to edit film sound projects that are finished in that format, because it's the tool i learned how to do that work on and it serves me.

I wonder what WWW IIII's response is to my question about how spending 4-5 grand on other things for his studio might affect his business...
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#40023 - 05/26/04 04:11 PM Re: Do I really need Pro Tools???
Nick Batzdorf Offline
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Registered: 04/15/99
Posts: 12161
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
 Quote:
In sum,
I consider Logic, Cubase, Nuendo, Sonar and others to be very much pro-sumer products geared mostly at hobbiests - not that there is anything wrong with that. But if you want to truly use what the pros use - Protools is it.
I'm a proponent of Pro Tools, and I have to disagree with that, Justin. Nuendo is a $1500 native DAW, and it's supposed to be very good on PC (the Mac version I have is early - I never kept up with the updates, so I can't say much about it).

But the other three are all *composition* programs vs. a production program. Pro Tools is not for composition if you use MIDI in an advanced way. As a matter of fact, they make Pro Tools look like a prosumer program in that regard!

I use Pro Tools for mixing and editing, but I use Logic for composing. (I used to use DP as well, but I'm too EXS24ed out to use it now.)

And I'm in the middle of a "whether to upgrade to HD" quandary. Chances are that I'll just keep my MIX system (which will never work on a G5) when I move to a G5. The upgrade is expensive, and the only reason I'd do it is to keep up with the updates. I don't need 192 or better converters.

Tough decision.

I'll answer WWIII next post.

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#40024 - 05/26/04 04:16 PM Re: Do I really need Pro Tools???
Nick Batzdorf Offline
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Registered: 04/15/99
Posts: 12161
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
1. The latest Logic 6.4.2 is supposed to have better OMF file exporting. I haven't tried that, but it may make it easier to import sessions into Pro Tools.

2. A better question is whether you have clients who use Logic or other digital audio sequencers. If so, you probably want Logic, DP, and probably Cubase and Sonar for compatibilty.

3. The Mbox is their entry-level hardware, but it uses the same Pro Tools LE software the 002 uses. How good it is depends on what you're doing. If you only have Pro Tools for compatibility, it's more than fine - as long as you don't need more than 32 tracks. You'll find that the 002 sounds better and has more features, but you may not need that.

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#40025 - 05/26/04 04:19 PM Re: Do I really need Pro Tools???
Nick Batzdorf Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 04/15/99
Posts: 12161
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Justin, there's also Sequoia as competition to Pro Tools - to name one. These programs all have their strengths.

My point is that other DAWs are not tinkertoys just because they're not Pro Tools. I personally have a few years invested in its interface and really like it - which is why I mix in it instead of Logic - but it's not the only game in town anymore.

A good friend of mine is a top music editor/supervisor, and they've recorded and edited more than one major orchestral score in Digital Performer. He uses Pro Tools as well, but you get the point: you're not a sissy just because you don't have Pro Tools!

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#40026 - 05/26/04 05:54 PM Re: Do I really need Pro Tools???
gregk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/15/99
Posts: 789
I use Pro Tools often and I do regularly use other software, Nuendo, Vegas, Saw Pro, Cool Edit, and others. I can say that Pro Tools is definitely the standard. However, there are many things about those other platforms I really like that I wish Pro Tools had. For instance, Vegas has a nice trimmer window function that operates on the parent wave file to the region in the track with great zoom resolution and capability to add, edit, view, markers.

One thing Pro Tools really sucks at is metering. Unless I am doing something wrong, I keep running into situations with 16 and 24 bit mixes where I easily overload the master buss or aux busses. Pro Tools' meters lie. They tell you that everyting is OK and is not overloading, when you actually are. When I bounce the file, I see that peaks have been clipped. If anyone has a solution to this I'd like to hear it. That, right there is a problem that I have not had with any of the other programs so I can say that while I really like working with many aspects of Pro Tools, it sure can be damn frustrating at times.

Greg

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#40027 - 05/26/04 08:30 PM Re: Do I really need Pro Tools???
Nick Batzdorf Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 04/15/99
Posts: 12161
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
According to Digidesign, it's not possible to overload the busses. It might be plug-ins that are doing it.

The solution to their meters is to use SpectraFoo's meters. I often stretch that thing across a whole monitor when I'm mastering.

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#40028 - 05/26/04 09:03 PM Re: Do I really need Pro Tools???
anaconda Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/16/99
Posts: 602
Loc: Southern Left Coast
J...How can you get a Virus if you're not connected to the Net? Besides, Flu season is about over. BTW, I have a Bud in Toronto who is a Logic Wizard. He is constantly sending audio files created with Logic to colleagues that time stamp perfectly and the music I hear with his Logic sounds pretty good to me. He does use some pretty high end convertors(DB Gold). The old addage is the path to the Digital Recorder is only as good as the elements in the path: The mic,pre,limiter-A to D convertors. If you're hip enough to use as much high end tubessence as possible on the A side, your s..t should sound fantastic. I, for one am still using Cubase only as a sequencer. I record to the MX with a groovy chain topped off with a Pacific Microsonics ADDA.
After I finish my current project I am going to think strongly about the Plug In World which I have never entered but as of late have heard some great stuff. FWIW.
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#40029 - 05/26/04 09:12 PM Re: Do I really need Pro Tools???
Kelly Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 1471
Loc: Toronto
 Quote:
Originally posted by Justin:
[QUOTE]
I consider Logic, Cubase, Nuendo, Sonar and others to be very much pro-sumer products geared mostly at hobbiests - not that there is anything wrong with that. But if you want to truly use what the pros use - Protools is it.
Hilarious!

Hans Zimmer uses Logic exclusively...damn hobbiest.

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#40030 - 05/26/04 09:35 PM Re: Do I really need Pro Tools???
WorldWar III Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/20/04
Posts: 28
Loc: New Jersey
There is no way I can justify spending 15K on a Pro Tools system. Reason being, I don't see it making a $15K difference. A hit record is a hit record. Most listeners can't tell you or even care what it was recorded on. We have all heard music that was recorded on ADAT and other tape that blew us away.

Thank you for all your comments. I see that it is a real subjective matter. I may still get a Pro Tools Le set up just to be prepared for anything that may come my way.

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