just curious. while i love the da7, i don't find it nearly as flexible as my old analog mackie 8-bus was for dealing with headphones while tracking. for one, the mackie had a very powerful headphone amp, while the da7's is a bit weak to say the least. how are some of you folks set up in that regard? thanks

-d. gauss

I use a Samson headphone amp that'll drive 4 sets of headphones. It's running off the Monitor B outputs and I'm getting plenty of level.

--Jeff

The Behringer Powerplay is ridiculously cheap and V loud too!

Lizardpoint

http://www.furmansound.com/HDS-16.html

http://www.furmansound.com/HA-6A.html

Check the impendence on your phones. It might have something to do with the SPL differences you're experiencing.

I use a Furman HA-6A.

It's a little more expensive than the Samson and Behringers but it has a built in 20 (jumbo) Watt amp that drives my near fields. There are also remote stations available for it.

I have been using the Furman HA-6A headphone distribution system with five remote mix stations for three years. All of my clients have been impressed with the sound quality and find the flexibility of a personnel mix great.

1) Each remote mix station has input for four mono channels and one stereo channel; six channels total

2) During tracking/playback I use DA7 AUX 3 - 6 to feed Furman's mono channels 1 - 4 and take the stereo out of DA7 Monitor B and feed the single Furman stereo channel. For example, Aux 3 - 6 could feed individual instruments/vocal and Monitor B could feed a stereo drum mix during tracking

3) I use AUX 1 -2 to return any effects to the talent during tracking

4) Each musician can then mix the session to maximize their performance

5) I also use Sony 7506 headsets

Have never had a problem with volume or sound quality and this is from Heavy-Death-Metal to Country & Western clients.

Radovic

I've been using a Rane HC-6 for at least 10 years.
It works/sounds good and always has.
Regards

<>

very funny. since every reply here has mentioned an external headphone amp in conjunctione with the DA7 vs. the internal amp i used to use on my old mackie console... i don't think impedence is an issue, it's the da7's lame amp. oh well, looks like i'll be spending even more money this weekend...

-d. gauss

Lame amp? The 7s head phone amp is designed to drive 1 headphone, not 6. I also use the mon B out to drive 2 sampson amps for 10 headphones and it works great.

I can also drive a pair of akg 240 headphones with plenty of level on the 7s amp. Lame? Not really.

Yo D ! ,
Jeremy makes a good point. Obviously , you can't drive too many headphones off the headphone output on the DA7 ( two with a Y cable would be max for me ). I have 12 headphone jacks throughout my studio so a seperate distribution amp is a necessity.
Regards

Impedance does have a lot to do with it - 600 Ohm 'phones like the AKG K240 DF are very quiet, even with the headphone level dimed (and this is the case even with a dedicated distribution amp like the Samson). Sony 7506s, whose impedance is in the double digits, are so damned loud, you'd implode your brain far before hitting "10".

If you're doing headphone distribution, then of course you're going to want to use an external box - I wouldn't want to drive even two headphones off the DA7's amp, simply because someone will want it softer, someone else will want it louder, and you've got one knob to do both.

It's possible that the Mackie boards just have a seriously powerful headphone amp, too. Again, check the impedance of your cans, because you may find the same issue, even with distribution amps. If that's the case, you may want to hook up a real amplifier to drive your 'phones.

charlie

Charlie's totally right, impedance makes a huge difference in how "loud" headphones can get. I have about a dozen pairs of Sony 7502's and they are WAY louder than my AKG K240DF "studio" 600-ohm cans when plugged into the same source.

Mark, I think I love you....

Jeremy thinks he loves Mark,
So what is he so afraid of?
He's afraid that he's not sure of
A love there is no cure for.

Jeremy thinks he loves Mark,
Isn't that what life is made of?
Though it worries him to say
He's never felt this way.

-----

Okay, that's enough incitement...please forgive me.

While I'm on non sequiturs, congrats to Nick on his new role on the board, too. Fix all them spelling mistakes! |:-)

charlie

I use the Mon "B" to drive a little Tascam PA-20 stereo amp that I modified with XLR outs that match the Furman HR-2's. I have eight af them which is 16 cans. Using Mon "B" I can feed L/R or Auxes but I tend to just send out a stereo feed. I can use TB also there.
Yes, impendence makes a big differance in levels. I have AKG, Sony and Sennheiser. That little Tascam amp drives them great. With a custom conductor box I built, I have had 17 headsets at one time with no problrm and they sounded fine.

In the studio, I use a Behringer Powerplay to feed a half dozen or so Sony 7506s. This is fed from Mon.B. In the control room, I take a 1/4" feed from the headphone out and use a Rolls 53 unit to power a few headphones for those times when we have a live mic in the control room during tracking. So far everything has worked fine.

As has been stated here already, impedance has a lot to do with your problem. That, and if I understand you correctly, attempting to feed more than one headphone out of the DA7's jack,(this is basically a bad idea as the ouput was not really designed for such a load). Headphones with a higher number for the impedance rating,(like the previously mentioned AKG 240DF that are rated at 600 Ohms) will require more power to sound as loud as headphones like the Sonys mentioned here,(I think they are rated around 60 Ohms). Units like the 240's were designed to minimize the load presented to a distribution amp, hence their rating. I used to own a Mackie 24 x 8 too and I used a distribution system,(2, in fact) because the Mackie couldn't handle my needs for multiple cue feeds. While the Mackie may have been louder than the DA7, it still required help for any real work. There is no way it would have driven 6-8 pairs of 240's, and even if it could, it would likely have burned out in pretty short order just like any console's headphone output jack would. You don't really state what your requirements are or what headphones you're planning on driving so your mileage will vary considerably as to purchasing. If you're planning on driving a bunch of high impedance units make sure to get enough power to do the job. I use a Furman HDS-6 and an HA-6A. Both of these units cannot drive the 240's to ear splitting levels, which is fine for me because I caution the talent to pitch problems when monitoring at too high a level, (and don't forget the possibility of hearing damage).

Steve

well, for 10 years or so, i've used numerous pairs of fostex t-10's and a few pairs of akg 240's as well, and never had an issue. the mackie was always great and before that, i used a carvin 16x8. just to repeat, i never had a need for and external headphone amp. but now, the da7 seems to crap out with anything more than 1 pair of phones plugged in. i mentioned impedence not being a factor, on;y because the only change in my setup was the da7. i'm using a mackie 1202 being driven off of monitor B, to solve the problem, and it is plenty loud, but i had hoped i wouldn't have to.

-d. gauss

No question the Mackie's output is higher. Personally, I think this is a non- issue and a pretty small trade off for all I get with the DA7, especially compared to the Mackie. For what I do, I expect to use an external distribution system anyway, regardless of the console. Apparently, your needs are not as stringent. FWIW I don't know any other engineers doing professional recording that are not using external distribution systems. I'm sure if you were to poll the readers in this forum you'd find a similar story.

Steve

-d. gauss,

There's a independent volume control for the DA7's headphone output to the left of the headphone jack.

Is your's turned up enough?

Just thought, I'd ask...

yes, the headphone volume knob is turned up. jeez...

i guess i was just spoiled by the mackie's powerful headphone amp. to respond to someone's question earlier, i would regularly drive 4 or 5 pairs of fostex t-10's connected to a beakout box at the end of a 100 foot snake with no problems. was hoping to not have to buy a dedicated amp, but that's not the case...

-d. gauss

I'd love to find a Symetrix HA 20 headphone amp because of it's size. The new headphone systems are very cool, I use a couple of them, mostly threw aux 3 to 6. The headphone out has been fine with one or two phones.