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#140358 - 11/13/10 02:55 PM DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest?
Knife Offline
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So, I never replaced the fan in my DA-7. It would periodically make hissing and/or light grinding noises over the last several years but, they always then went away before they became so bothersome that I had do a replacement.

A couple of days ago, it finally started making a pretty loud and consistent report of a bearing failure. Loud and long enough that I finally decided to unpatch the desk, pull it out of the "studio" and finally tear into it and check out what it takes to replace the fan or if I could rebuild it.

As a side observation on that: The guides to doing this project here on the DA-7/Audiotalkback site are woefully inadequate. I'd be happy to do a more comprehensive write-up (w/pictures), if anyone thinks it's worth it (i.e. am I like, the last person with a DA-7 that has yet to replace the fan?)

Anyway, the part number listed for the fan here on the site (in a post by Justin) returns a part classified as a "motor" when searched in the Panasonic parts locator website. It may be the right part and just described poorly, I don't know. In any case, it's now up to like, $92.00 or some ridiculous price.

I wanted to see if I could rebuild the old fan for the time being and source a good (hopefully better quality) fan, as a replacement. I opened up the DA-7 and took the fan out and noticed it is a 60mm x 10mm 5v fan - mine is made by a company called "Shicoh."

I took the sticker off the fan, revealing the little circlip at the end of the fan shaft holding it all together and took the whole thing apart. It's not that hard to do - just pretty small parts in a tight package. Inside, the fan has a tiny little roller-cage bearing that the fan shaft sits in so, it is pretty difficult to "rebuild" it on the spot. I did the best I could to try and pack some bearing crease in the tiny little bearing through the gaps around the cage covers, I also put a little more grease on the shaft and the plain bearing that it sits in and put the whole thing together. It's noticeably quieter than it was but, it still make s slight hissing-type sound so, it's not good and will need to be replaced.

Which leads me to - I also searched for replacement fans and found quite a few sources for them. Average price for a 60mm x 10mm 5v, 3 conductor (positive, negative and "speed") fan (i.e. essentially a "direct replacement") is about $10.00 from various suppliers found on the internet.

I ended up finding a source for the EXACT fan that is in my DA-7 - the Shicoh A0160 - through Amazon. They sell them in two packs (why 2-Packs, I don't know, but...) and I bought a package of two for $9.99 - total of $15 w/ shipping. They should be here next week.


Question for those of you who got the part from Panasonic and did the fan replacement - Was the new part you got just a replacement (perhaps even the Shico brand fan that is in my DA-7) or was it an upgrade? I'm wondering if the known problem is with the OEM Shicoh fans being shitty and I shouldn't waste my time simply replacing with the original OEM fan, but upgrade to a better fan, now.





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#140361 - 11/13/10 05:35 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
mlange Offline
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I'm sure I'll be needing to go here at some point in the near future.

These guys make some of the best fans available, bu they don't have a 60mm model:

http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=produkte&lng=en

How about a link to the Amazon product? I'll gladly order one now.


Edited by mlange (11/13/10 05:47 PM)
Edit Reason: speling
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#140363 - 11/13/10 05:45 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: mlange]
Knife Offline
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MLange:

The link is below but, if your fan isn't acting up right now, I'd wait a bit - even just to see how my escapade turns out, even if no one else answers with deeper experience and more detail. It might be worth it to skip the Shicoh fans and just upgrade to a better "computer-grade" one, like an Evercool or similar.

http://www.amazon.com/Shicoh-Blade-60mm-...8055&sr=8-4
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#140365 - 11/13/10 09:28 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
TheHopiWay Offline
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Knife,
The replacement fan I received from Panasonic two years ago is the Shicoh, same as original. It's still in the box as I haven't need it yet.
The part # on the box is YWA06105V, part name is DC Motor,0,9V.

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#140366 - 11/13/10 10:01 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
GlennR01 Offline
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Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 5136
Originally Posted By: Knife
Was the new part you got just a replacement (perhaps even the Shico brand fan that is in my DA-7) or was it an upgrade? I'm wondering if the known problem is with the OEM Shicoh fans being shitty and I shouldn't waste my time simply replacing with the original OEM fan, but upgrade to a better fan, now.


Mine were supplied by Panasonic, identical to the originals. And the replacements worked fine throughout the time I had the DA7's, no issues for years until they were sold.

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#140367 - 11/13/10 10:39 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: TheHopiWay]
Knife Offline
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Originally Posted By: TheHopiWay
The replacement fan I received from Panasonic two years ago is the Shicoh, same as original. It's still in the box as I haven't need it yet.
The part # on the box is YWA06105V, part name is DC Motor,0,9V.


Interesting. That's the part number I sourced form Panasonic. It's listed as a "motor."

It's now priced at $92.24!!!

Are you SURE it's listed as "9v"? Maybe the packaging has a typo?

The Shicoh fan in my DA-7 is definitely a 5v one - and as far as I can tell, Shicoh only makes them in 5, 12 and 24 volt varieties. Not 9v. My fan says "5v .18a" right on it and the full part number on the fan is, indeed, "A0160-5v"

I wonder if the Panasonic "fix" on this known-problem is to install a 12v (9v?) fan, to replace the 5v one, which maybe runs too hot in the DA-7 application?
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#140372 - 11/14/10 09:09 AM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
TheHopiWay Offline
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Well my eyes are failing and have the typo... With a magnifying glass it's quite clear that on the box it reads " DC MOTOR, 0.9W.

The fan itself is labeled as 5 volts (DC5V) at 0.1 Amps.
The part # on the fan is F6010AP-05JAV

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#140373 - 11/14/10 11:32 AM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: TheHopiWay]
rick Offline
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Loc: Cambria, CA USA
Aha, that explains it. 0.9 watts at 5v.

There are so many small fans available nowadays that the only difficult issue is matching the connector. And even that can be overcome with a little rewiring.

But the link to the original replacement is nice to have.

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#140374 - 11/14/10 09:02 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: rick]
Knife Offline
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Yep. The Shicoh 5v fan specs out to 0.9 watts at 0.18 amps and 5 volts. The maths works out.

That's it.
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#140393 - 11/15/10 08:57 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
Knife Offline
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Well, if anyone is thinking about buying one of those "direct replacement" Shicoh fans that I linked to - don't (unless you want to take them apart and use them for parts, as I am now considering doing).

I just got the ones I ordered today and, despite the picture on the seller's site being a clear three-conductor model and all other designations on the fan being the same, these are not the same. They are only two conductor.

I assume the DA-7 actually uses the third conductor, which is typically a fan speed control lead so, I'm not going to install one of these. Since I have them though, I may take one apart and see if they are ready to accept the third lead from the old fan I have. If they are, I may "build" a replacement fan out of one of these and the leads form my old DA-7 fan. I assume doing that is not something the rest of the DA-7 community wants to get into.

If not, look for replacement fans that definitely have the three conductors, elsewhere.

Like:

http://www.directron.com/ec6010m05ca.html?gsear=1 - $4.99

or

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556093442.html - $6.99
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#140396 - 11/16/10 07:49 AM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
mlange Offline
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Please report back when you pop it open. Soldering a third lead is no problem

...... if the terminal is there!

Thanks Knife
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#140401 - 11/16/10 11:28 AM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: mlange]
Knife Offline
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I already did it.

It looks as though the terminal is there - and even more promising, the terminal appears to be linked by a trace on the fan's circuit board a tiny IC chip, which I am assuming means the fan speed control is already installed in basically all of these fans as they are manufactured, but it is just not ultimately wired up in all of them, to suit them for different intended applications.

I also ordered some of those Evercool 3 conductor, 5v fans. When they get here, I'll to a bit of experimenting with them and also with making a "Frankesnstien" 3 conductor Shicoh fan out of the lead I have on the existing, dying fan and one of the newer Shicoh fans with only two conductors wired, that I just got.

I'll keep you posted.
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#140410 - 11/16/10 05:18 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
mlange Offline
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Originally Posted By: Knife
When they get here, I'll to a bit of experimenting with them and also with making a "Frankesnstien" 3 conductor Shicoh fan out of the lead I have on the existing, dying fan and one of the newer Shicoh fans with only two conductors wired, that I just got.

I'll keep you posted.


That's how I'd do it, too.

Thanks for the info.
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#140412 - 11/16/10 08:34 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: mlange]
rick Offline
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Ooh...Frankenfan.

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#140424 - 11/17/10 01:11 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: rick]
Andrew K Offline
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Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 2218
Loc: LA, CA, USA
Thanks for posting this Knife. I bought 3 replacement fans about 4 years go when someone here (who had a store) was blowing them out. They are still in their boxes, but I'm saving them because I still have three DA7s sitting in an 10 foot Agrossy console.

Anyone want to bu the whole thing? laugh

Cheers,

Andrew K

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#142315 - 05/09/11 04:25 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
Craig H Offline
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Originally Posted By: Knife

If not, look for replacement fans that definitely have the three conductors, elsewhere.

Like:

http://www.directron.com/ec6010m05ca.html?gsear=1 - $4.99

or

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556093442.html - $6.99

Is there a preference on either of the above fan models, one says 15mm the other 10 mm or does it really matter and either will fit? Also is it pretty easy to access the fan and pop in a replacement ? Of course right now mine stopped making noise all of a sudden but I probably should look into replacing it anyway.


Edited by Craig H (05/09/11 04:29 PM)
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#142317 - 05/09/11 06:14 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Craig H]
Knife Offline
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I don't have a preference for either, as I never used one of them. I ended up rebuilding my OEM Shicoh fan with the leads and PC board from the original and the fan, bearings and casing from a newer Shicoh.

So far, no problems but, I have the Evercool 60mm 5V Ball Bearing Case Fan, 3-pin, 4000RMP, Model: #EC6010M05CA

http://www.directron.com/ec6010m05ca.html?gsear=1 as a backup.


As you can tell if you read this thread from the top, my fan was giving intermittent noises for several years before it finally started doing it all the time, pretty loudly. Up to you if you just want to take the plunge and replace now or, wait until it's really whining.

As for doing the replacement, if you have a moderate level of mechanical skill and a decent philips-head screwdriver, it's not hard to do, at all. Once you get the DA-7 open (and the mic-pre sub-chassis out of the way - about 20 screws, in total), the fan is right there, screwed to the side of the DA-7 itself. The thing opens up kind of like the hood of a car (it opens from the the back, hinged at the front). When you prop it open there's a decent amount of room to work.

There are photos and guides (which I found a bit incomplete and lacking detail, yet still helpful) on this and other sites. I think one of the older "Fan Replacement" threads in this forum has a link to a guide - including some photos - on how to open up and replace the battery and/or fuses inside the DA-7, that you can refer to.
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#142318 - 05/09/11 09:41 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
mlange Offline
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These were the other I found..... a silent Sycthe, but it was 60mmx20mm frown

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g36/c15/s672/list/p1/Fans-12_Volt_Fans-60mm_x_10mm_Fans-Page1.html
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#142324 - 05/11/11 12:33 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: mlange]
Knife Offline
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Not for nothing mlange but, those fans are not proper spec for the DA-7.

The DA-7 fan is a 5 volt fan. Those are all 12 volts.

A 12 volt fan will not operate properly (if at all) on just 5 volts. I'm not sure but, a 12 volt fan may also may damage the DA-7 by pulling too hard on the cooling fan power and/or speed control circuit(s).
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#142325 - 05/11/11 09:28 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
mlange Offline
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My bad on the V rating.

However, the fan would probably just turn slower..... it's the current draw (amperage) I believe we really need to be concerned with.

FWIW - If I get my hands on one I'll report back my experience.
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#142328 - 05/12/11 05:32 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
Craig H Offline
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Posts: 23
Loc: Boston,MA
Originally Posted By: Knife
I don't have a preference for either, as I never used one of them. I ended up rebuilding my OEM Shicoh fan with the leads and PC board from the original and the fan, bearings and casing from a newer Shicoh.

So far, no problems but, I have the Evercool 60mm 5V Ball Bearing Case Fan, 3-pin, 4000RMP, Model: #EC6010M05CA

http://www.directron.com/ec6010m05ca.html?gsear=1 as a backup.


As you can tell if you read this thread from the top, my fan was giving intermittent noises for several years before it finally started doing it all the time, pretty loudly. Up to you if you just want to take the plunge and replace now or, wait until it's really whining.

As for doing the replacement, if you have a moderate level of mechanical skill and a decent philips-head screwdriver, it's not hard to do, at all. Once you get the DA-7 open (and the mic-pre sub-chassis out of the way - about 20 screws, in total), the fan is right there, screwed to the side of the DA-7 itself. The thing opens up kind of like the hood of a car (it opens from the the back, hinged at the front). When you prop it open there's a decent amount of room to work.

There are photos and guides (which I found a bit incomplete and lacking detail, yet still helpful) on this and other sites. I think one of the older "Fan Replacement" threads in this forum has a link to a guide - including some photos - on how to open up and replace the battery and/or fuses inside the DA-7, that you can refer to.


Thanks for the info. I did see some of those pics. Right now it's quiet again . It seems to be loudest when I first power up . Maybe needs to warm up a bit. But I'll probably get one of these fans to have on hand before I take the plunge. Just stalling before I break up my work flow.
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#142329 - 05/13/11 11:20 AM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Craig H]
DP Offline
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However, the fan would probably just turn slower....."

And that's NOT a concern? Slower turn = Less airflow = less cooling...No? Anyone who's used a DA7 for more than a half hour or so knows that heat IS a big concern. Just take a look at how the LCD starts to disappear so you have to manually adjust contrast.

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#142332 - 05/15/11 06:51 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: DP]
mlange Offline
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Strangely, my DA7s never had a heat issue - sometimes on for weeks at a time.... However the noise floor generated by tha fan is my biggest concern. Many new fans have higher published flow rates with lower rotations.
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#142333 - 05/16/11 07:19 AM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: mlange]
DP Offline
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Hmmm, do you have the "disappearing LCD"? I just assumed this was a known issue and everybody dealt with it the same way (manually adjust contrast as the LCD heats up)...Interesting...

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#142334 - 05/16/11 01:01 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: DP]
mlange Offline
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No .... knock on wood ..... my lcd doesn't shift (much) - I might trim it a bit, bit never to the point of it being a bother. I will keep an eye on her, though.

However, there are a couple of other LCD culprits that are a drag - the Kawai K5m's being one of them.
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#142336 - 05/16/11 02:05 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: mlange]
DP Offline
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Wow...that's very interesting. Mine is virtually unreadable within about 1/2 - 1 hour of powering up. Once I re-adjust I'm good for several hours. I rarely do sessions that are more than 4 hrs. at a time anymore so I can't really say what happens long term (at least with my DA7).

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#142337 - 05/16/11 04:27 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: DP]
Knife Offline
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My DA-7 display requires a minor adjustment after a few minutes of warming up. Indeed, if I get the contrast knob set at JUUUUUUUST the right spot, it can be readable through the range from boot-up to fully-warmed up and I don't HAVE to adjust it. But there is a noticeable warm up and darkening/increase in contrast to the LCD display, over the first few minutes as it warms up.

I always thought that was largely independent of the heat of the other components, though. I was under the impression that that was just the LCD screen itself, warming up - and the display would behave that way regardless of the heat coming off the other components in the board. Maybe not.

I have an old Roland synth with a similar LCD display that does the same thing (and it has a corresponding contrast knob, as well). Turn it on and, in the first few minutes, you have to crank the contrast knob all the way up to be able to read the screen. A bit after that though, it becomes too dark and unreadable and you have to then turn down the contrast.

Like the DA-7 display, if you just leave the contrast setting alone after powering off, when you first start it up, the screen will be too light/bright but, it will warm up and eventually get to the same contrast as the last time it was warmed up and then you can see everything, just fine.
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#142338 - 05/17/11 07:36 AM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
DP Offline
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Uh huuuuuuugh ! I never endeavored to find the schweeeeeet spot...on the LCD that is!

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#146294 - 05/05/14 11:49 AM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
Craig H Offline
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Registered: 12/04/01
Posts: 23
Loc: Boston,MA
Originally Posted By: Knife
I already did it.

It looks as though the terminal is there - and even more promising, the terminal appears to be linked by a trace on the fan's circuit board a tiny IC chip, which I am assuming means the fan speed control is already installed in basically all of these fans as they are manufactured, but it is just not ultimately wired up in all of them, to suit them for different intended applications.

I also ordered some of those Evercool 3 conductor, 5v fans. When they get here, I'll to a bit of experimenting with them and also with making a "Frankesnstien" 3 conductor Shicoh fan out of the lead I have on the existing, dying fan and one of the newer Shicoh fans with only two conductors wired, that I just got.

I'll keep you posted.


Been a few years since I checked back on this . But I finally took the plunge and tried replacing my DA7 fan with one of the evercool 5v fans listed here with the help of an electronics friend. Unfortunately the wire colors were different and believe we fried that resistor as neither fan fan would work now when hooked up .

After talking to another audio repair guy, we decided to try bypassing the resistor and running the fan off a separate 5 v power supply that I picked up and tapped it off the main power supply so the power switch would turn it on. This worked but the fan ran too fast and was way noisier than before and sounded like a vacuum cleaner, even the old fan sounded the same with this setup. So I guess the fan is running at less than 5 v with the resistor in place , any idea what that might be ?

Tried running the fan off a 3 v power supply and still seemed too loud and fast so thinking of trying 2.5 step down regulator off the 5 v power supply and see if that works . Its Way too loud now. Any other suggestions for a slower speed? Bad idea to just bypass the fan all together I am assuming?
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#146295 - 05/05/14 02:22 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Craig H]
rick Offline
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Registered: 04/16/99
Posts: 3154
Loc: Cambria, CA USA
You can insert a rectifier diode in the fan's power supply line. That'll cut the voltage by about 1v without you having to compute a resistor value. Daisy-chain a couple of diodes to get a bigger voltage cut.

Since the rectifiers have a polarity, you need to insert them in the proper direction; if you've got it backwards you'll get nothing to the fan. Flip it around and it should be OK.

Chances are that if you achieve a quiet fan speed it'll keep things cool enough.

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#146296 - 05/06/14 12:06 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: rick]
Craig H Offline
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Thanks for the info but We already tried a couple of rectifier diodes inserted on the power supply and that didn't seem to work even when flipped around . Already ordered a step down regulator for a few few bucks and should have that by the end of the week and will see if that does anything to solve it.
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#146709 - 07/17/17 09:00 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Knife]
ShaneC Offline
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Registered: 07/11/17
Posts: 16
I realize this is an old thread, but is proabably valid now more than ever.

I just ordered an evercool fan https://www.directron.com/ec6010m05ca.html?gsear=1
and replaced it in a malfunctioning Da7; displayed "fan stop" error message.

After replacing it I wired up the red/red green/black & grey/blue, which ran the fan for a second with same error message. I then rewired to red/red green/blue and grey/black. No error message and Da7 runs fine, except without the fan running. Left it on playing music for about 40 minutes without heating it up enough to activate fan. Noticed on my other Da7 the fan is always on. Although there are three leads, I noticed that the evercool specs show it doesn't have PWM.

Any suggestions??

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#146723 - 09/22/17 02:58 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: ShaneC]
Sugarnutz Offline
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Loc: Just South of Memphis
I just ordered the last pair of Shicoh fans from Amazon. Will post again if I use them and any other info when I can.
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#146730 - 11/09/17 08:07 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: Sugarnutz]
ShaneC Offline
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Registered: 07/11/17
Posts: 16
I noticed the Shicoh on Amazon and found the exact same 2pin versions on Ebay. Ordered two and modified one with the original fan (which had coil damage). Due to the micro size components and PCB, this was not an easy fix. I had to de-solder 2 resistors, a transistor, and speed control lead, and then solder onto replacement fan PCB.

https://www.amazon.com/Shicoh-Blade-60mm...8055&sr=8-4

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SFcAAOSwSQFZ6LwU/s-l400.png


Edited by ShaneC (11/27/17 05:48 PM)

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#146847 - 02/12/20 07:32 PM Re: DA-7 Cooling Fan Update - Is This Still of Interest? [Re: mlange]
glvaughan Offline
Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 45
Loc: Scottsdale, Az, USA
Wow, so glad to find this old thread because my old DA7 fan is starting to squawk and I couldn't find anything to replace with. Once again, this forum is a gem for those of us still using the DA7.
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