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#139344 - 09/09/10 01:12 PM Re: Hey Guys, I'm Back [Re: Michael M]
Nick Batzdorf Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 04/15/99
Posts: 11960
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
It's good to have dreams that there's even going to be a record industry for very long.

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#139345 - 09/09/10 03:50 PM Re: Hey Guys, I'm Back [Re: Nick Batzdorf]
jeremy hesford Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 6219
Loc: odenton md.
The only way to make it is to paint cake on your face!

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#139346 - 09/09/10 04:15 PM Re: Hey Guys, I'm Back [Re: Nick Batzdorf]
Knife Offline
Veteran Member
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Registered: 07/22/02
Posts: 1415
Loc: New York
It is interesting that this idea seems new or worth debate:

Originally Posted By: Jeremy Hesford
People don't care about fidelity anymore, mp3 is the norm.


You seem to be confusing two separate issues, simply because they both relate to how people access and experience music. This is like saying nobody cares about automotive performance anymore because the Honda Accord is the best-selling car.

People don't buy Honda Accords to go racing. They buy them to commute and go shopping in. It's a different set of value concerns that lead the average person to the purchase of the practical car vs. a Ferrari.

People "care" about fidelity, but convenience will ALWAYS trump fidelity.

It always has. It's not about people not caring about fidelity "anymore." People cared about fidelity when they went from lacquer to transistor radios, from reel-to reel to cassette, from LPs to 8 track, when they skipped right over DAT to go to CD's and most recently, when they threw out the CDs for MP3 files.

It's not that the average consumer doesn't want the music to sound good, but there is a balance between "good enough" and "really convenient."

MP3s clearly are incredibly convenient. You can have millions of them on a standard computer, hundreds of thousands on a laptop, thousands in a tiny, hand-held player - and easily access them, share them with your friends, make playlists, etc., etc.

And clearly, a 128 kb MP3 sounds "good enough" to go past that and get to the convenience being the selling point.

I don't like the way they sound and I can hear a difference but, most folks think it sounds good enough.

As engineers, you should be trying to make the best sounding recordings you can, without caring what the final format for delivery will be (because there is always that fringe few that will notice and appreciate the work you put into it on the BluRay Audio version...) But don't confuse the average consumers' desire for convenience with a disdain for fidelity. They are not the same thing.



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#139347 - 09/09/10 09:22 PM Re: Hey Guys, I'm Back [Re: Knife]
jeremy hesford Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 6219
Loc: odenton md.
That analogy does not quite work Knife, between cars and music, but I see your point.

Some of you guys have been at this a lot longer than I have but, from my experience, when adats came out in the eairly 90's, a new age of digital recording was born. A crystal clear sound that revolutionized an industry. Anlanis Morrestt won a grammy tracked on an adat.

But the sound was/could be harsh and people were trying to find ways of countering that with tubes. Over the years the conveters/ word clock got better, higher sample rates ect ect all the while still using those same preamps and mic's that were used back in the 2" tape days.

DAWs became the norm with plug-ins that emulated analog compressors and eq's and on and on. Remember when 96k was so big? So from my perspective, it reached a peak of fidelity that digital offered.

I started to notice how "some" productions were trying to get back to that older sound, a little grainy, not so clear, even muddy. I'm not saying it does'nt sound good but that crystal clear digital sound was becoming less popular.

Now with myspace, which to me has some of the worst sounding compressed files, people have gotton use to that, especially younger generations. I'm not saying people don't want to hear good sound, they do with their home theather systems, and some still do listen to CDs, I do.

But the grainy degraded MP3s that I have heard are (really) bad, yet people don't seem to notice.

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#139357 - 09/10/10 09:07 PM Re: Hey Guys, I'm Back [Re: Knife]
GlennR01 Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 5099
Amazingly, I totally agree.

Originally Posted By: Knife
It is interesting that this idea seems new or worth debate:

Originally Posted By: Jeremy Hesford
People don't care about fidelity anymore, mp3 is the norm.


You seem to be confusing two separate issues, simply because they both relate to how people access and experience music. This is like saying nobody cares about automotive performance anymore because the Honda Accord is the best-selling car.

People don't buy Honda Accords to go racing. They buy them to commute and go shopping in. It's a different set of value concerns that lead the average person to the purchase of the practical car vs. a Ferrari.

People "care" about fidelity, but convenience will ALWAYS trump fidelity.

It always has. It's not about people not caring about fidelity "anymore." People cared about fidelity when they went from lacquer to transistor radios, from reel-to reel to cassette, from LPs to 8 track, when they skipped right over DAT to go to CD's and most recently, when they threw out the CDs for MP3 files.

It's not that the average consumer doesn't want the music to sound good, but there is a balance between "good enough" and "really convenient."

MP3s clearly are incredibly convenient. You can have millions of them on a standard computer, hundreds of thousands on a laptop, thousands in a tiny, hand-held player - and easily access them, share them with your friends, make playlists, etc., etc.

And clearly, a 128 kb MP3 sounds "good enough" to go past that and get to the convenience being the selling point.

I don't like the way they sound and I can hear a difference but, most folks think it sounds good enough.

As engineers, you should be trying to make the best sounding recordings you can, without caring what the final format for delivery will be (because there is always that fringe few that will notice and appreciate the work you put into it on the BluRay Audio version...) But don't confuse the average consumers' desire for convenience with a disdain for fidelity. They are not the same thing.



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#139360 - 09/11/10 07:58 AM Re: Hey Guys, I'm Back [Re: GlennR01]
DP Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 2301
Loc: Hampton Bays NY USA
"But the grainy degraded MP3s that I have heard are (really) bad, yet people don't seem to notice."

No, they don't notice, 'cause they don't know any better.I totally agree with the convenience vs quality argument but... Once someone comes up with a way to deliver better fidelity via the internet (it's only a matter of time...I just heard something about "cd quality" downloads on XM radio yesterday)everyone will want it, and will be willing to pay a little extra for it.

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#139368 - 09/13/10 09:15 AM Re: Hey Guys, I'm Back [Re: DP]
Stevehwan Offline
Veteran Member
*

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1727
Loc: WI
Welcome back Jeremy! grin
Steve
_________________________
Steve Cox
President Steve Cox Productions
www.stevecoxproductions.com
www.stevecoxjingles.com

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#139369 - 09/13/10 09:19 AM Re: Hey Guys, I'm Back [Re: DP]
Stevehwan Offline
Veteran Member
*

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1727
Loc: WI
Originally Posted By: DP
"

I just heard something about "cd quality" downloads on XM radio yesterday)everyone will want it, and will be willing to pay a little extra for it.


That's really interesting.... I may be one of those people.
Steve
_________________________
Steve Cox
President Steve Cox Productions
www.stevecoxproductions.com
www.stevecoxjingles.com

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#139373 - 09/13/10 06:42 PM Re: Hey Guys, I'm Back [Re: Stevehwan]
Kecinzer Offline
Founding Member

Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 3412
Loc: MA, USA
I record in 88k and really hate the idea of degrading the quality by putting it on a 44K CD. I can't believe we can't move to a new and better commercial standard. Fug mp3.
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