I used to work and play hockey with a bunch of Christain guys. I asked questions like this all the time, for real, i was trying to understand where they were at, i wanted to respect their beleifs because they were my friends.
The problem i always ran into was that logic was not where they were coming from. It's more than that to them.

I say great, if religion makes your life better for you, than it is good.
I think it's silly and i could articulate why in so many ways but why bother.
So it's live and let live.

The problem with a situation like this with Bush is that he is not applying his **** to a certain group of people with the same beleifs. He is symbolizing and setting a precedent that does not say live and let live and getting away with it because of his position.
I keep saying "He" but i highly doubt they haven't spent a considerable amount of time and research checking this stance out and how it will help the party and further confuse the numb minded public as to what is Right in this world.
Our poor children.

Thanks, Ceb. So...then I'll just keep on sinnin, cause sinnin feels so good. Besides, if he forgives me, I can bring this topic up when I meet him some day. "Listen Jesus, like I'm sorry if chokin the chicken was a sin. Or if doin it in the back seat out of wedlock was wrong..please forgive me man.I'm just a frail human of human birth. Mom wasn't even a virgin.We're gonna see him, right? I mean don't Christians think our souls are going to re-create an idential human body on a parallel planet and sit around on the front porch spinnin yarns with Grandma. Really cool, if it's that way. Or do souls re-incarnate into other life forms and the circle continues.....You know what? It really doesn't matter cause we all just do the best we can. I, however embrace all dogmas from all great religions. They all have their version of a "messiah" you know.

Okay. We all have to do what we think is right. More power to ya, man!
ceb

Ceb...Groovy man. At least you haven't disgarded your soul and given most of your hard-earned money to the brain-damaged followers of a 2nd rate Sci-Fi writer. Bravo. The Creator is larger than the sum of all of His parts.

At first I thought isn't a "civil union" good enough, whats the need for "marriage".

After some thought..... whats the big deal. Why can't gays be married, its not going to affect/effect me or my family.

Is it going to destroy marriage? Heterosexuals have done a pretty good job at it already.

Or is this really a domestic partner and health benefits issue?

IMHO all Bush is really doing is defending the definition of marriage (as the word was originally defined when it was created, whenever that was) as being the union between man and woman.

He seemed to elude to that Gay marriages will be something else. I don't know what that word will be, and perhaps they will ultimately have the same rights and considerations as a marriage.

Personally, I don't really care. If gayness was a built in behavior (as in, NOT learned) evolution and Darwinism would dictate that gay people would have completely evolved themselves out of the race, because they would not typically have children. So how's that for something to think about?!?!?!?

Greg

:D

Like I said, it's a choice to live in homosexuality.

Another problem I recognize with most arguments in this thread is the permutation of Moral Relativism, i.e. "Live and Let Live". A society without absolute values, absolutely has no value.

Too many points to tit for tat, but Carl, we've had this discussion before under a different context.

The point is this: nobody has a direct line to ask God what he thinks about gay marriage or anything else. Religion is something you're brought up with, or you pick one and follow it, or you decide to believe in; it requires *faith*, which by definition means you decide to believe it even though it's not something you can reach out and touch. It's something you believe for yourself. There are many different great religions, and in this country it's your civil right to follow any, all, or none of them.

Christians believe all kinds of things that people who follow other religions don't believe, and vice versa. If it's against your idea of Christianity to have gay sex, then nobody is forcing you to have gay sex. You're free to disapprove of or dislike gay people, just as there's no law you have to like black people. You can believe whatever ridiculous nonsense you want. It's your right.

But it's not your right to interfere with other peoples' equal right to live their lives the way they choose. That's what's happening here. There's nothing noble about practicing intolerance just because it's part of your primitive, anachronistic bastardation of one of the world's great religions. So no, Carl, George Bush's principles are a big pile of **** to me. Never mind that this is all a cynical ploy.

And yes, Mogandus, I am sure it's a civil right. We're confusing two things here: the right for gay couples to have the same legal benefits heterosexual couples have - a civil right, not a religious one - and a "religious" ceremony (in quotes, because I'm married and not religious).

Maybe I'm missing your point but it seems to me that morality is very much tied to relativism. Years ago perfectly moral, most likely religious people kept slaves in this country. It was perfectly moral for them in that time. Was that a worthless society? There are never absolute values when it comes to morality. It evolves as society accepts new ideas and rejects old ones.

Yes, and if you're gay the alternative choice would be to shut off half your life.

What you really mean is a society without *your* absolute values absolutely has no value. And that value is unpermutated crap.