That is the bottom line between of the debate between total ideological extremes in this country, going back to Hamilton and Jefferson. And both extremes are totally foolish.

But that framing is only if you look at it ideologically rather than for the world as it is. If you look at the real world, the questions make much more sense.

Social Security isn't welfare, by the way, it's a public supplemental retirement program that we all pay into. Socialized medical insurance isn't welfare either.

Nick,
When did you get your social security card? It sounds to me like you do not know what it is about. I see it as we give the gov. money and they tell us how we can spend it if we get to the age where we are eligable, but that is only the tip of that iceburg. We hear that we can't get a job without the card, not true. They do not tell us that since we signed it we now have to have a drivers liscence and then register for the armed services, all that because the gov. tricked us into signing a document when we were not leagle signatories to that aggrement, meaning we have to be 18 or emancapated to do so. Every American pays taxes even if they did not pay income tax or s.s. that year. Every purchase we make has a tax on it, unless your in a non sales tax state, but we still pay gas tax alcohal tax, now smoking tax, property tax and profit tax. By the way, the American revolution started because the tax base was 15% and stamps were $0.25. While were on it what does $ mean? Certainly not what the U and S over it ment. One line threw the S means a differant thing than two.

Nick the foolish thing is not going back to Hamilton and Jefferson while we still might have a chance. And whats more foolish is thinking someone else other than you or your family has your 'best' interest, you know that is impossable, right? If ya don't please explain it to me so I can get a grasp of where your comming from, I do not have blind fath, I want to see it first, and then decide on whatever it is, KRIPES! we just went threw the bail out, you don't think we got screwed there? When no one in office, that we ellected (to protect our rights) even read the bill.... But you want to get slapped with another one? Really? Maybe they will do it right this time is insanity. Get rid of them before they get rid of you.

yng, the world you want to live in would have sick people all over the place because of the lack of public health. Old people would be starving to death en masse. Our country would have an even more extreme separation between rich and poor. There would be no public infrastructure, no fire department, no police department, no education, no national defense, and the only leadership would be organized crime. Disorganized crime would be far more rampant.

But you're right, there would be no government waste...because there would be no government. You'd have your rightful guns, in fact you'd probably get shot by some other redneck libertarian.

No.. SS isnt not welfare. But it is a sort of forced retirement in a way. but that in and of it self is a different issue - but yes it is tied.

Here is a question I have, what did we do before Health Insurance? How did we come to a place where nothing happens with out it?
at this point in history we are not able to PURCHASE "HEALTH" insurance for our dogs and for our Cars. Why is that? Where is the need for that??? Is it because the Vets and mechanics want more $$ now?? or at least want some residual income?

Should the Government also get involved with that too?

Well, this is good news if it's true:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/health/policy/19repubs.html?hp

The Democrats have given up trying to get Republicans on board with healthcare reform. Finally they realize that there's no negotiating with people who are that irrational.

Now we just have to get the Blue Dog fools on board.

Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie, gimmie.

Why would I shoot yng?

For freedom and equality.

Great news indeed! It's about time the democrats located their balls.

Before health insurance you paid the neighborhood doctor 5 bucks to come to your house and tell you there was nothing he could do for you. Up until the past couple of decades health insurance was a relatively small part of the family budget. Nothing happens without it now because who could afford it to?

I'm kind of curious how SS is forced retirement?