upper box is control room, lower is drum room

this old orange tree stump is kicking my arse

conduit to run audio and video cables
enjoy...
sam

Awesome pics!

I always wanted to call my country band Stump Grinder....

The PVC cable conduit may be a pain in the arse. Getting cables in and out of it is difficult, and changes later on are nearly impossible. A trough is a much better idea.

Looks good!

Yea they are actually 2 1/2" pipe. (know they look smaller in photo) and I ran two to the side that is between the control room and the drum room. I may still run one to a spot behind where I would sit in case later down the road I get some racks to hold gear in front of the console. I see that in a lot of studios. For right now all my rack stuff fits in the console and two rack rollers that would go left and right the argosy.
Any other good observations ;-)
S

If the floor is going to be raised at all, then troughs can be easily laid above the concrete. You'll thank yourself later. Put extra snakes and lines in the PVC if that is permanent, including LCD, USB extension cables, etc. You may want to try to feed cables through it right now before the pour, and see if it will work for you.

You are going to have a very nice setup!

Looks good.

Is the contractor going to let the conduit sit on the dirt when they pour concrete or will he elevate the conduit so it is within the slab?

If you position the conduit close to the slab you can install pull/junction boxes so it can be accessed from the finished floor.

When pulling the wires you can use that wire lube stuff if you don't mind all the slime.

Rich

"A trough is a much better idea."

Sorry if I'm being naïve and it's a much more expensive proposition, but wouldn't a raised foundation with crawl space be still better? Then you can run your cables wherever you want without worrying about changes - which will certainly come, for example you may not even want a console at some point.

"but wouldn't a raised foundation with crawl space be still better? Then you can run your cables wherever you want without worrying about changes - which will certainly come, for example you may not even want a console at some point. "

Nick, you just beat me to it! That's exactly what I would do - forget the PVC cable conduits altogether. All you need is a 6" space and a cable-fishing friendly framing design.

Well yea the problem with all of that is no raised floor. The pergo will sit right on the treated slab, not sure what all they put under pergo wood floors but my contractor knows. I already have talked through all of what will run where with my gear guy and we are trying to think ahead so yea LCD, USB, video, CAT9, Aviom personal mixer line, I forget what all he said but its short enough runs and big enough PVC that we will really be able to run anything anywhere. I'm trying to beat it all to the punch so that I will not wish I had some other run later down the road.
Oh and there is anywhere from 4 to 6 inches some parts of sand before the concrete so the pvc will be under the cement and rebar.
thanks all for the advice! its helping me think...

Yeah, now is the time to do all the thinking you can. And then some!

The added cost for raising a solid concrete floor would be quite a bit. Hardly worth the aggravation-to-reward ratio.

Run PVC and pour baby pour!

.... and, give-up on the axe and take a flippin' chainsaw to that orange stump. Do it before Friday and you can use the saw as a Halloween prop!

Slab on grade is cheaper than footings, poured or concrete block low walls, add sill plates, joists, 3/4 TG then sub flooring etc...

A trough isn't that much more expensive, just a little more time and labor to form out the troughs and shift the concrete pour. BTW one can use those plastic trench drains as a form for a trough.

Rich

My back tells me that no matter if I did it wright or wrong I'm stickn' with the game plan.
will have more pics in the next few days...
pour baby pour is right! :-)
S

Make sure you keep an eye on the leveling. Once your shed is up and running - you want all your beer bottles standing nice and straight up!

Wow ... Was that in English? Damn, I had no idea about how much I don't know. Time for another beer.

Sorry, wasn't working on all cylinders

I was just suggesting that you actually run cables through those troughs to see if it will work - before the pour. I've had frustrations with cable tubes that small, especially when trying to add or remove cables after the install. Cable troughs are easy to build, and can be raised if needed. I'll bet you are anxious to get back to making music!!

No worries - and I agree totally with running multiple "pulls" throught the PVCs before your pour. Don't forget: always pull wires with replacement "pulls" attached....

Instead of worrying about troughs and whatnot, maybe just lay a ton of 24 channels cables in the PVC with proper patch points at either end... or hard-wired with extra an extra cable loop if you need more. This way instead of running cable.. you just patch in.

Andrew K that is the plan but it will be 32 channel rope going one way and 24 the other. One side will just have the amp room both bass and guitar and keyboards. Thanks all this helps,
S

Last time I checked mic cable was bi-directional ?!

But at the same time?

Makes for some interesting sounds
Actually, since it's just cable, I didn't see the difference he was saying in '24 one way... etc'

Maybe 24 to drum room & 32 to amps and keys room?

Its hard to explain cause the lines will be split in some parts and there will be XLR and 1/4 jacks going to different places. Amps and Keys will be more like 10 lines and drums will get at least 16. I did 12 in my last place and if one of your wall plugs goes down its a bummer real quick. I'm trying to think over-do it even thou the whole place is only two rooms 615 square feet. I'm getting tricky and my mains that will be soft-it mounted are these big home theater speakers that have two 12"s in each one and mids and tweeters. I was even thinking about just getting a used Sony receiver to push them cause again they are just to show off a mix to a client not to mix on...
they laid sand today, tomorrow rebar, monday poooouuuurrrrr... :-)

Looks great Sam. Curious how are you going to run electric? Will it be straight off the telephone pole or run somehow from the breaker box of your house?

Pour baby, pour!

Throw down an SM57, a guitar pick, MXR Distortion +, and an EL84 into the rebar for good luck. Future generations will excavate the site thinking it is some unusual burial ritual.

Oh - don't forget your kid's handprints on Monday!!

pouring Wednesday!

Ok after a few delays due to city inspectors, here is the pour...

Nice! Hey no expansion joints in LA ! Wothoppen!

Sweet!

Allllll right

Looks like the soup is just about done!

Lucky Dawg.....

and goin... framing the control room




the big beam is going up in the middle tomorrow and plywood as well...
just a little update.

Nice!

You won't have to deal with bad reflections if you leave it like that with no walls or ceiling.

Or heating in the summer and air conditioning in the winter, for that matter...

I would rather be to hot or to cold or deal with reflections than deal with my next door neighbor Gregorio (say with Italian accent)
Capish?

What are those wall studs, like 8" on center?

Looks like staggered studs so it would appear to be 8"oc

I've always felt that the code should be changed to make studs 19" (their edges) apart.

Ah, that makes sense! Didn't even think of staggered studs...Hmmm, just looked at the photo's again...Staggered studs sharing the same plates? If that's the case, what sense does that make? The whole idea of double wall construction is to isolate the inner and outer shells of the space, no? The savings in space by using staggered studs (as opposed to building a separate wall inside the outer shell)is far outweighed by the loss of isolation/sound proofing. Does anyone have any "real" or compelling reasons to build this way as opposed to building a "room within a room"?

Nope - "shared" plate walls are acoustically inferior in isolation to separate plates.

You would use a common plate if you have a load bearing wall coupled together with dimensional constraints.

If you went with separate double 2x4 construction you would more than likely brace the studs back to each other for structural reasons vs staggered 2x4 on a 2x8 plate. That bracing would then transfer vibrations.

I'm sure earthquake requirements also come into play.

That's probably the ticket, right there.

However, there have been lots of free-standing rooms constructed w/o any ties to the external framing.

True


Sam,

Are you required to cross brace (x brace the walls) or to use cable as a diagonal brace within the outside walls?

Rich

Nope the city did get sticky about double walls but when I said staggered studs they didn't flinch. I'm also green gluing two layers on both sides.
Its pretty intense I helped lift this like 500 pound beam into the middle today, thought I would fall and die. Wish someone took pictures cause it was crazy lifting a beam 10 feet above the ground.
Ok more pictures later this week. And check the green glue site, they say staggered studs is better cause the vibrations don't hit the outside wall as much.
S

Looks awesome Sam! Thanks so much for sharing your picts and experience. Your blood, sweat and tears is our pleasure!

Sorry Sam, but I don't think that's what they're implying. Here's their quote:

The Best Possible Construction - Green Glue Room Within a Room.
The room within a room is sometimes challenging to construct, often impractical, consuming of ceiling height and floor space, and so on and so forth, but for situations like high end theaters and modern recording studios, a Green Glue room within a room is absolutely, positively the best construction possible.

This is true for both airborne sound and impact noise
http://www.greengluecompany.com/newConstructionFloors.php

Regardless, with you Green Glue-ing your rooms, you'll be set!

Yea and ya know I'm getting to that stage in life that I'm over big rock or metal bands, or bumpn' hip-hop. If I can track a normal singer-songwriter stuff, and if I need to do big drums I'll go to a big studio. If I can track drums playing at a moderate level and just barely hear it outside so that over that 6' brick wall my neighbors don't quite hear the mid or high freqs then I'm set. I don't even think they can hear low freqs anyways :-). In fact I'm more worried about tracking a acoustic guitar or soft vocal and getting that airplane noise or dog bark in my track than keeping every little noise out. I think this is going to work. Staggered studs, 6" wall with two layers of the thickest drywall I can buy on the inside and three layers, two drywall, one plywood on the outside and all of it airtight construction.
thanks for all the encouragement... though
Sam

You're doing great! How are you approaching your doors?

Oh, with that amount of drywall you'll have a very quiet room.

You're right, airplane noise (low freq rumble) is probably all you have to worry about (or maybe the occasional bark from a Bull Mastiff :-) ).

On the outside walls are you using Densglass gold or some other fiberglass faced wallboard? I only bring this up because of mold issues.

How are you constructing your ceilings?

Looks really good, now start swinging your hammer!!

Rich

Hey Rich-

Have you had good results with the Densglass Gold. Any special handling or installation required?

Thanks,

Mark

Good product. (exterior use only)
Has a 3 month direct weather expose warranty.

Cuts like sheetrock. Some jobs call for caulking the joints some don't all depends on the final finish.

If your hands are tender you could end up with some fiberglass splitters.

Same goes for Dens Shield tile backer (easier to work with than cement board) mold does not grow on it.

Most jobs now call for some type of mold resistant drywall (Mold tough etc..) at wet chases, elevator shafts, air shafts.. any potential moisture trap. Mold resistant board runs about .09 - .08 cents more per SF (price is coming down and we may see mold resistant drywall becoming the norm)

All the board we use in NYC is 5/8" thick, metal framing...

Yea was swinging the hammer till I couldn't see the nails anymore. The roof ply goes up tomorrow, inspection monday and roof tuesday. (its supposed to rain Wednesday so I'm crankn')
Yea the framing is pretty heavy duty and the roof I'll show pics tomorrow. I have not heard of Densglass is that supposed to be better for sound? Doors and windows I'm just following the book, (Rod Gervis) and he calls for a lot of airtight stripping around the door to seal when it closes. I'll probably get solid doors and the window well... after final inspection I may accidently break it and have to put in a new one if you feel my drift.
all cause of the darn city... AND they almost made me match my roof which is a 100 year presidential some special deal that would cost me 800 bucks more to put on the studio roof. I talked them into letting me do the 30 year but match the color.
ok I'm beat...
S

"In fact I'm more worried about tracking a acoustic guitar or soft vocal and getting that airplane noise or dog bark in my track than keeping every little noise out. I think this is going to work. Staggered studs, 6" wall with two layers of the thickest drywall I can buy on the inside and three layers, two drywall, one plywood on the outside and all of it airtight construction.thanks for all the encouragement... though"

Hmmmm, yhea there's the rub..."I think this is going to work" What are you basing that "thought" on? What you seem to be missing is the fact that "noise" (all the stuff you don't want on your recordings) is transmitted directly through vibration into your studio. This include everything from Jets, Trains, Trucks, cars, kids running by, people talking outside etc... If the inside is coupled to the outside (staggered studs or not) anything that hits the outside, including through the ground (your slab is sitting on the ground right?) will be transmitted to the inside. Will lots of drywall attenuate the sound - of course it will. Will it eliminate the sound? NOPE, not even close! You'll be amazed at what gets through those massive walls. "Thinking" it's going to work is "wishful thinking". Unfortunately, the fundamentals of physics and acoustic transmission won't agree. I'm sure Rod Gervais book has all this info in it - but you can't just ignore the things that you don't "think" matter and cherry pick the info that you "think" matters or that fits into your plan. This is a big project and I'm sure it's costing you a pretty penny. If you have to make compromises, make them on the asthetic things and not on the stuff that matters - you can always decorate the place later on, but re-building won't be an option. I don't want to sound like a prick about this, but I'm speaking from experience... Good Luck

You're right.... however, there are economies of scale - and floating an entire stucture is cost prohibitive for many folks. Meanwhile, using Green Glue on stagerred studs, properly applied, with every leading edge caulked, will work amazingly well on a poured slab. The residual flanking noise should be minimal.

The weakest link will actually be the windows and doors.

More work today... its fun to work on a project when its yours ;-)



the plywood should be all up today and the roof on Tuesday...
back to the hammer

Oh mlange I emailed you hit me back! :-)

Densglass Gold is an exterior wallboard (thats all)

Low freq rumble is the most difficult "sound" to deal with and generally the most expensive to deal with. Isolated concrete slabs run a few bucks.

With four layers of drywall and one of ply give the outside walls plenty of mass and from what I understand about Greenglue is that when it drys it still remains somewhat flexible (providing some vibration dampening, even with direct screw fasteners)

Looks good

I just emailed you

Here is a product we are using on a project

Kinectics Isomax

This is a great thread! The studio is lookin good!

Ok more pics!





these are a little more exiting! :-)

double 1 3/4 solid doors (going to both be air-tight) and stucco and last window should be done by next week.
Finally starting to get this thing zipped up.
just thought I'd share...
Sam

what's the floor space footage?

I like the psychodelic paint you used in the first shot ... oh wait ...

Glass block - good call.

Looks awesome, Sam!

Ahhh rainbows with trails ...........


Lookin good Sam

update, with stucco working on siding and overhang (going to be the drum room later on) today and tomorrow should be finished.



progress slow but sure

Wow, if you don't mind me asking, how much do you think you have in this so far?

Nice pics!

Framed my butt off today.... someday I'll have to post some pics of my build, too.

Got more done today...



above pic is the overhang that will someday be a drum room when I add on to the add on (wink, wink)

ready for windows tomorrow!

this is what it looks like overhang with window and stucco done.

door

above is the custom piece I'm making that will go in the window in-between the glass and I'm covering it in black fabric. Its Homostate board and the little thing is those packets that come in shoes that keep moisture out.

Looks good Sam.

How's that work platform/scaffold?

Hey I made that myself... lol
15 bucks and left over wood beats buying an expensive one!
My wife is covering pieces of homostate board with black fabric that will go inbetween the glass right now. Glass comes tomorrow! Going to be sweet.
Hey another question...
What does stone do for accoustics. I know wood has nice bounce so to speak of it. I noticed that Chris Pelonis uses a lot of stone or cool bricks in his work. I was thinking of something like this

Looks great!

His stones are randomized depths and create some sort of diffusion pattern. I've been looking at my rapidly expaning pile of scrap lumber and thinking about the same type of thing:




Whaddidya end-up choosing for colors, Teach??

Ok power is up and lights. All my power was custom wired by the guys who have done studios like NRG, MI, and a grip of other big studios. Its all mega grounded and isolated, and I got a new box and edison hooked me up with new wires from teh polls to handle my new addition. All that is left is paint trim and move in. I'm going to have a friend shoot the room once my stuff is all in and my Dynaudio's set up. He owns the same speakers and is a pro at the software they give with there AIR series and I added the Base2 which is a two 10" sub for my bigger room. You don't understand how bad I want out of my old spot and into the new. The day I can rent the moving truck will be a glorious day...
:-)
Sam

Are the walls square to each other?

Yep, I know... read all the pro's and con's and my old studio was no square walls but in the end a number of studio builders like Steve Klien said make your room dimensions musical and then adjust with proper treatment and should have a good sounding room in the end. I thought about making some reflective parts of the walls that angle the sound back. I'm going to wait and have my friend shoot the room and we are going to weigh all the options, absorption, diffusion, refection.
Will know more in a couple of weeks.
Sam

Is it one big open room?

Yea the city gave me 425 sf and I wanted a big control room and then this summer I'm going to add-on to the add-on. It will have a drum room, amp closet, hallway, bathroom/kitchenette.
I'm going to need to save some more dough though. :-)

Looks really nice man.

Great advice.... great choices. The room looks beautiful. Congrats, Sam!

The room looks really nice Sam! Those corners will be great for some nice large broadband absorbers. It looks like it's going to be very comfortable, and once you've done the proper analysis and treatment I'm sure it'll sound great too. Good Luck

Looks Good,

Did you install the doors seals?

Congrats Sam! Looks awesome!

Wow.. nice sam. you lucky guy! I'm curious, are there going to be any partitions? how would you isolate band insrtuments? movable halls??

Killer..

movable sound halls by audiophile.. patent pending

There's a plugin for that now.

is there a plugin for f-holes?

Congratulations on your new studio!

It looks very beautiful.

Very nice! When is your first booked session in that room?

Well I created a monster cause its a big reverb chamber at this point. I have to figure out what all I need to add to the walls and just get some absorption and diffusion to the room. I set up a small station with some speakers just to check it out but all the big stuff is still at the old studio cause I have one or two more recording sessions I need to do first, then make the move.
I would bring the ol' 4' X 8' 703 fabric wrapped panels with me but I did them in burlap and am not the best panel wrapper and I want something that looks better. I don't know Aurlex stuff is so expensive but if that is what I must do, I don't want this great looking studio with crappy looking treatment on the walls. I guess I could take the panels I have to a place to get them wrapped but I may just leave them in the old studio for whom ever works in there.
Any suggestions?
Sam

I was always curious about these http://www.acousticsfirst.com/vinyl.htm

seems like they have a decent rating maybe a couple layers especially for a fabric..

you mean these?
http://www.acousticsfirst.com/frstresp.htm

they seem decent. I have rooms so I never bothered trying something like this.

Topic viewed over 5000 time dang dude.. way to catch some attention.

Ok so I bought a bunch of used Auarlex stuff today from a boker in Studio City. He works with bigtime, did the Osbornes whole house and studio, Will-I-Am Black Eye Peas home studio and just many studios and so I was loading up all this stuff into my car and was like so who's studio did you rip all this stuff out of? He said oh this all came from Oliva Newton Johns personal home studio, she just sold the place for 14 mill and moved to Florda. I guess her home was in a place where the fires got close and it freaked her out and she wanted out of california.
So can say my room is treated much like Oliva Newton John would treat her room. :-) I also have her old Isobox too...
Oh LA...
Sam

Hey Sam, since you have put so much into getting it to this point, you ought to hire an acoustics tech guy to set your room up right.

EEEWWWWWW!

Sam, I know a great guy in San Diego if you are so inclined..

Sam, without having to go thru all these posts to find out, what are the dimensions of the room?

Good question... since I have done so much to the inside walls I have not measured it to the inch. I know what it is to the foot but I'll measure it today. I'm trying to find some used area rugs, I know that will help with sound too but having a heck of a time. Its almost moving day, I have one more vocal session to do in the old place and then all is coming over here.
Sam

Dude, don't mess around with your acoustics, get a pro in there to set you up right.

Sam what's your broker's info?

He is not my broker per se' but I just found him on craigslist. He is selling a lot of stuff and I think him and his partner also do work with a guy Jason I know who owns http://www.gearorphanage.com. You could find this guy on craigslist pretty easy he has a list a mile long of gear for sale look under craigslist and they are in studio city. Don't remember the name right off hand but I buy 90% of my new stuff from http://www.micworks.com and that is who I would call my gear guy. His name is Kirk.
What are you looking for?

Sam.. you found Oliva Newton Johns' studio iso booth on LA craigslist? hu?

The Auralex stuff is ok for the High end and maybe down to the midrange, unless you've got some "lenrd" corner absorbers included in there. START WITH THE CORNERS and then deal with the flat surfaces as needed. Make your corner absorbers as large/deep as possible - you won't be dissapointed. Use Owens Corning 703 (or similar) - it's inexpensive and it really works. If you start with the "flats", you run the risk of knocking out to much high end and early reflections and creating a very unnatural sounding space. It's probably also a good idea to use some poly-cylindrical ("polys") diffusers on the large flat walls. Whatever you do, don't just go slapping faom everywhere!!! Good luck

Don't go slapping anything anywhere until you have a acoustics tech in there. You can't compromise on something so important. Does not matter how good your gear is or how much you have, if your acoustics are not right, it won't matter, even more so where you set up for monitoring.

I used RPG foam, very dense. You can double up or triple up on the thickness of the 2x2' square which well absorb lower frequencies.

Once again, start with the corners! Always start with the corners! This where low frequencies build up, and they NEED to be treated (an "acoustics tech" will tell you this too...). Good Luck

SuperChunks, baby!!!

http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=535

http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=534

"SuperChunks, baby!!!"

Absolutely !!